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Old 07-09-2013, 10:57 AM
 
31,387 posts, read 36,978,939 times
Reputation: 15038

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
Funny how you only see the good, and never the massive harm.
Quite the contrary.
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:29 AM
 
10,092 posts, read 8,190,445 times
Reputation: 3411
Quote:
Originally Posted by no1brownsfan View Post
Indeed it is. The government should butt out!
Tell that to the Indiana GOP who passed the law. You know--the party who a good chunk of the folks on this thread believe are ALL ABOUT small government.
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:46 AM
 
111 posts, read 107,338 times
Reputation: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayJay1980 View Post
One of the most important aspects of the Revolution and the foundng father's beliefs were LIMITED GOVERNMENT. However, I talk to folks today and it seems like they love more laws, more regulations, more creation of federal departments and they want government to have a hand in everythinf possible.

So I have two questions:

1) Why have attitudes changed so vastly in the last 20 to 30 years?

And

2) When you take away everything America stands for in the name of "safety'" then what are we really trying to protect ourselves against? Because we have robbed ourselves of everything we have ever stood for.

- A Libertarian
When the Framers were around, the country was much different. Let's consider how different. People back then were largely farmers and ranchers or ran small businesses. They were self reliant and did not have a need for much government beyond the local Marshall. They had wells and did not need municipal water or sewer. They had horses and did not travel far or need paved roads. This was the country back then. And even then, when they felt the need for government, they too would call on government. When the Indians attacked western settlers and wagon trains and the local Marshall could not handle it, they sent for the U.S. Calvary. Today the country is vastly different. The economy we have is now largely a dependent economy where we all depend on others for jobs, products and services. We depend on public infrastructure for transportation, water, sewer, gas, food and all other things. We depend on employers for jobs. People can go from New York to Los Angeles in 3 hours. That is why government has to be more involved in the life of the country. We cannot live under a 200+ year old document today. It has to change with the times.
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,102,216 times
Reputation: 7875
I am sure their are plenty of people in Congress who agreed with him.
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Old 07-09-2013, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,282 posts, read 6,730,331 times
Reputation: 1531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surftown831 View Post
I can't tell if post like these are serious, or just sarcastic vitriol. If serious, your ignorance of policy and history is frightening. This is not a left/right issue. The right claim to be for less government in their words but their actions are far from libertarianism. George W. Bush increased the size of government more than any president before him.

Opinion: Bush and Big Government - WSJ.com
You are right, he did, he was not a Conservative or a Libertarian , he was a statist Neocon.
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Old 07-09-2013, 02:54 PM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,896 posts, read 11,961,214 times
Reputation: 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
You are right, he did, he was not a Conservative or a Libertarian , he was a statist Neocon.

Oh Hell yeah he was!
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:09 PM
 
14,293 posts, read 9,660,473 times
Reputation: 4254
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayJay1980 View Post
One of the most important aspects of the Revolution and the foundng father's beliefs were LIMITED GOVERNMENT. However, I talk to folks today and it seems like they love more laws, more regulations, more creation of federal departments and they want government to have a hand in everythinf possible.

So I have two questions:

1) Why have attitudes changed so vastly in the last 20 to 30 years?

And

2) When you take away everything America stands for in the name of "safety'" then what are we really trying to protect ourselves against? Because we have robbed ourselves of everything we have ever stood for.

- A Libertarian
I think it's because of the insidious and steady growth of government, which gives something free to everyone. People will not speak up about a huge, overbearing government, because they don't want an end to their free stuff, so government just keeps growing, and freedom is eroded.

Today, one third of the nation is now being provided some form of free federal food assistance from government. Slowly, but surely, people are accepting of the notion that the federal government should give them something for free, and in this way, a bigger government which promises more free stuff, is viewed as a popular government.

Our young college students seem to be happy as clams to get free health care insurance, due to big government. It eludes their thinking, that their fellow high school classmates, who went directly into the work force after graduation, will be paying for their free health care insurance for the next eight years.
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Old 07-09-2013, 04:24 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 36,978,939 times
Reputation: 15038
Quote:
Originally Posted by OICU812 View Post
Today, one third of the nation is now being provided some form of free federal food assistance from government.
I know, it's soooo shocking considering that the economy is growing by leaps and bounds, real wages have been going through the roof and unemployment is lower than anytime since the peak of WWII!

Freaking amazing isn't it!
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:25 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,282 posts, read 6,730,331 times
Reputation: 1531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
I grow weary of this foolish "small government" talk. It mostly comes from control freakish, frightened right wingers who desperately want the government to control unions, minority voting and women.
We don't want them to control any group or anything.
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,282 posts, read 6,730,331 times
Reputation: 1531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reno Joe View Post
When the Framers were around, the country was much different. Let's consider how different. People back then were largely farmers and ranchers or ran small businesses. They were self reliant and did not have a need for much government beyond the local Marshall. They had wells and did not need municipal water or sewer. They had horses and did not travel far or need paved roads. This was the country back then. And even then, when they felt the need for government, they too would call on government. When the Indians attacked western settlers and wagon trains and the local Marshall could not handle it, they sent for the U.S. Calvary. Today the country is vastly different. The economy we have is now largely a dependent economy where we all depend on others for jobs, products and services. We depend on public infrastructure for transportation, water, sewer, gas, food and all other things. We depend on employers for jobs. People can go from New York to Los Angeles in 3 hours. That is why government has to be more involved in the life of the country. We cannot live under a 200+ year old document today. It has to change with the times.
no it does not, the founding principals of this nation can work in the modern age. the only thing that has changed is technology not human nature,
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