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Old 08-16-2013, 07:56 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,920,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patton360 View Post
It sure as hell has increased more than three times since 1913. Get a clue.
So has the amount of production. I have a clue.
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Old 08-16-2013, 08:00 PM
 
Location: Canada
2,158 posts, read 1,991,168 times
Reputation: 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
So has the amount of production. I have a clue.
No, you're what might be termed a "useful idiot". A dollar from 1913 would buy you the same amount of goods as $23.60 today. Keep a blind eye to this flawed scam and then cry "woe is me" when the system collapses. I know you will.
As well, good luck paying off this debt imposed by your criminal Federal Reserve system (which is neither federal, nor has any reserves, by the way).
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Old 08-16-2013, 08:00 PM
 
18,794 posts, read 8,422,685 times
Reputation: 4125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patton360 View Post
Tell us how this occurs.
Most money these days is created within and from our private banking system. But as there is a debit for every credit the total money does not change. Central new money creation can happen through Congress, the Fed, through legislation and budgeting. And this is new money if we the people and our elected officials decide and agree to it. When this new money is spent into our economy the amount of money in our economy expands.

The Concept of Vertical and Horizontal Money Creation - Seeking Alpha
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Old 08-16-2013, 08:06 PM
 
18,794 posts, read 8,422,685 times
Reputation: 4125
The Concept of Vertical and Horizontal Money Creation - Seeking Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patton360 View Post
You don't seem to give a damn about people who save their money. As your money supply increases, the value of a dollar saved drops. I guess that becomes irrelevant to people who have their hands out to the government all the time, though.
Of course 'I give a damn'. I'm a saver too. But one always has to be a smart saver. And a smart saver knows better places to stash their money, so that overtime their investment beats inflation.

If the value of the USD continued with persistent strengthening, we'd have all sorts of other problems to deal with. Just look to Switzerland where more recently they have been fighting this very issue. It kills their export sectors. When a dollar is to be worth more tomorrow, people tend not to spend today. And when 70% of our economy is based on consumer spending, that whole concept works against capitalism, jobs and a growing economy. If everyone saved all their money our economy would collapse!
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Old 08-16-2013, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Canada
2,158 posts, read 1,991,168 times
Reputation: 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Most money these days is created within and from our private banking system. But as there is a debit for every credit the total money does not change. Central new money creation can happen through Congress, the Fed, through legislation and budgeting. And this is new money if we the people and our elected officials decide and agree to it. When this new money is spent into our economy the amount of money in our economy expands.

The Concept of Vertical and Horizontal Money Creation - Seeking Alpha
I have a few problems with your assertions. Money creation does not happen through Congress, despite what article 1, section 8 of the U.S. Constitution dictates. Yes, Congress often orders some money from the Fed, but Congress neither creates it nor regulates the value thereof. The privately-owned Federal Reserve does that.
Secondly, "we the people" has little to do with what elected officials do. Between elections, do these representatives seriously want or seek your input? What happens if people don't want this? The politicians ignore the people and ram it through anyway.
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Old 08-16-2013, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Canada
2,158 posts, read 1,991,168 times
Reputation: 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
The Concept of Vertical and Horizontal Money Creation - Seeking Alpha

Of course 'I give a damn'. I'm a saver too. But one always has to be a smart saver. And a smart saver knows better places to stash their money, so that overtime their investment beats inflation.

If the value of the USD continued with persistent strengthening, we'd have all sorts of other problems to deal with. Just look to Switzerland where more recently they have been fighting this very issue. It kills their export sectors. When a dollar is to be worth more tomorrow, people tend not to spend today. And when 70% of our economy is based on consumer spending, that whole concept works against capitalism, jobs and a growing economy. If everyone saved all their money our economy would collapse!

Yes, under the current awful system, the economy would collapse if people saved and paid off their debts. It would dry up the currency supply in a debt-based system.
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Old 08-16-2013, 08:13 PM
 
18,794 posts, read 8,422,685 times
Reputation: 4125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patton360 View Post
I have a few problems with your assertions. Money creation does not happen through Congress, despite what article 1, section 8 of the U.S. Constitution dictates. Yes, Congress often orders some money from the Fed, but Congress neither creates it nor regulates the value thereof. The privately-owned Federal Reserve does that.
Secondly, "we the people" has little to do with what elected officials do. Between elections, do these representatives seriously want or seek your input? What happens if people don't want this? The politicians ignore the people and ram it through anyway.
Well you are describing our national politics, and there is no getting around it. We think, we talk and discuss, and we vote. There is simply no better way. And there is simply no better monetary system and country on Earth. Go figure!
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Old 08-16-2013, 08:13 PM
 
Location: Canada
2,158 posts, read 1,991,168 times
Reputation: 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Well you are describing our national politics, and there is no getting around it. We think, we talk and discuss, and we vote. There is simply no better way. And there is simply no better monetary system and country on Earth. Go figure!

Seriously??
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Old 08-16-2013, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
14,361 posts, read 9,767,929 times
Reputation: 6663
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
Libertarians of today are nothing more than an extension of the John Birch Society of the 50s and 60s. Far right wing fascists posing as libertarians. They pick and choose which libertarian principles they want to adopt and disregard the rest. They want the libertarian freedoms that the Libs talk about but have a very restrictive and totalitarian agenda for the rest of us.
If anything exemplifies the meaning of totalitarianism it's the progressive wings of both parties.

IN GENERAL, the vast majority of Libertarians believe that any sane person should be able to do anything they want if it doesn't harm another person. This doesn't mean we want no laws, we just want good laws.

-We want to end all wars including the ones being waged on our citizenry.
-Legalize drugs, prostitution, gambling...etc. and then tax and regulate it just like alcohol and tobacco.
-We want our country to stop being an empire. We are sacrificing our own people to nation build, and it must stop!
-We want our borders secured, and our immigration laws enforced.
-We want to preserve states rights. If you don't like the way your state runs, move to one that runs the way you like.
-We want the Constitution to be followed as it is written, not as it is interpreted.
-We don't want to take away women's right to choose, however we don't want to pay for their choice.
-We would treat the persecution of anyone, for their beliefs, religion, skin color...etc. with extreme prejudice! Equal rights under the law.
-We want to reign in the insanity of a "too big to control" government.
-We want educators to educate, not indoctrinate.
-We want the government to spend no more than it brings in from reasonable taxation. A fair tax.

That's just off the top of my head.

I'm a card carrying dues paying Libertarian. You obviously have no clue what a Libertarian actually is. For every Republican and Democrat there is a different "assumption" of what a Libertarian is, and each is almost always wrong. But then, extremists say all the scandals aren't real, and think the tea party is an actual party and full of racists. It seems that being wrong is a fad these days.
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Old 08-16-2013, 08:16 PM
 
18,794 posts, read 8,422,685 times
Reputation: 4125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patton360 View Post
Yes, under the current awful system, the economy would collapse if people saved and paid off their debts. It would dry up the currency supply in a debt-based system.
Any economy demands money creation and spending to succeed and grow. Saving might be good for ones future personal needs and goals. We won't be stopping saving. But saving is just not good for most of the current economy.
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