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I think there is a faction of people who, while being law abiding gun owners, are looking for the opportunity to use the law to get rid of people they don't think should be here. I'm not saying they are looking to gun down as many people as they can.
What changed my mind about this law is the lunatic in Texas who saw two guys burglarizing his neighbor's house. He got his shotgun and got the police on the phone, said he knows about the SYG laws, went outside, ignoring dispatcher repeated instructions to get back in the house and wait on the police.
On the 9-1-1 tape, you could hear him saying, "Move, and you're dead" and then three shot gun blasts. He then told the dispatcher, "They came in the front yard with me, man, I had no choice."
These were clearly burglars, were found with fake ID, money and jewelry from the neighbor's house. Many would celebrate that they are dead.
The man was acquitted and applauded. The laws gives people the opportunity to be vigilantes, as happened in the Zimmerman case, and become self appointed judges, juries and executioners.
I am a gun owner, and my inlaws are as well. We are all on the same page politically except for this law.
If someone breaks in my house for the purpose of doing my family harm, I hope I will be able to stop him. But I am not judge, jury and executioner of every person I perceive to be a criminal who stumbles into my path.
I remember that case. He was prosecuted though and his case did go through a normal grand jury. The jury just didn't want to convict and I'm not sure we can blame them for that. All juries have the right to not convict someone.
There is nothing wrong with defending yourself which is the legal basis for stand your ground laws.
The alternative would be that you would be required to run away when ever you were confronted with home invasion, personal assault, or any other form of violence.
Only people who are afraid to protect themselves are opponents to stand your ground laws.
They are the same kind of people who honestly believe they would be safer if the government took away our means to protect ourselves. What they do not understand is that predators in most cases tend to just chase down and kill prey that run away.
100% Bull.. I own an AR15, Remington 870 shotgun (with the evil pistil gripped and collapsible stock), 9mm, and a .357 Mag with plenty of ammo. If someone was breaking into my house, I would flee first if if possible. Not because I'm scared to protect myself, but because I'm not a blood thirsty fool who need to prove how manly I am by taking the life of another human being when I could have avoided it. Because I do not want to risk my life, the lives of my family members, the lives of my neighbors and innocent bystanders, and even the life of the idiot breaking into my house by initiating a gun fight because I'm more worried about my manhood (or lack their of IMHO) and replaceable STUFF...
I WILL attempt to run away first when ever confronted by home invasion, personal assault, or any other form of violence, and I WILL only shoot to kill if left with no other choice.
I was all f*ck Obama, pro gun, pro NRA, etc. I was like "these anti-gunners are making sh*t up" and that "most gun owner are responsible", but after listening to how a lot of other gun owners talk, I'm starting to understand why the other side feels the way they do...
Quote:
Originally Posted by carolac
I think there is a faction of people who, while being law abiding gun owners, are looking for the opportunity to use the law to get rid of people they don't think should be here. I'm not saying they are looking to gun down as many people as they can.
What changed my mind about this law is the lunatic in Texas who saw two guys burglarizing his neighbor's house. He got his shotgun and got the police on the phone, said he knows about the SYG laws, went outside, ignoring dispatcher repeated instructions to get back in the house and wait on the police.
On the 9-1-1 tape, you could hear him saying, "Move, and you're dead" and then three shot gun blasts. He then told the dispatcher, "They came in the front yard with me, man, I had no choice."
These were clearly burglars, were found with fake ID, money and jewelry from the neighbor's house. Many would celebrate that they are dead.
The man was acquitted and applauded. The laws gives people the opportunity to be vigilantes, as happened in the Zimmerman case, and become self appointed judges, juries and executioners.
I am a gun owner, and my inlaws are as well. We are all on the same page politically except for this law.
If someone breaks in my house for the purpose of doing my family harm, I hope I will be able to stop him. But I am not judge, jury and executioner of every person I perceive to be a criminal who stumbles into my path.
+1
Last edited by DoniDanko; 07-15-2013 at 10:23 PM..
Stand your ground law has nothing to do with guns. You can 'stand your ground' and kill someone with a weapon of your choice - baseball-bat, knife.
What is wrong with "Stand your ground"?
Many things. Most importantly, under this law, the burden of proof to use deadly force (gun or no gun) simply requires that a person imagines that he or she in danger (life is being threatened). Therefore it is a law full of holes.
I agree with you. It's a law full of holes, and does the law address what would be reasonable fear of one's life or fear of his or her life being threatened? I am asking this because someone who raises his or her voice at someone could be perceived by the person as a possible threat or possible fight about to occur. And if the person is bigger or stronger than they person he or she is raising his voice at, could that mean that the person fears his or her life or feel in danger.
Going to the Treyvon Martin murder. Since it's a fact that George Zimmerman did following Treyvon, could Treyvon have thought that his life was being threatened? Could that have been a reason for the confrontation between George and Treyvon?
100% Bull.. I own an AR15, Remington 870 shotgun (with the evil pistil gripped and collapsible stock), 9mm, and a .357 Mag with plenty of ammo. If someone was breaking into my house, I would flee first if if possible. Not because I'm scared to protect myself, but because I'm not a blood thirsty fool who need to prove how manly I am by taking the life of another human being when I could have avoided it. Because I do not want to risk my life, the lives of my family members, the lives of my neighbors and innocent bystanders, and even the life of the idiot breaking into my house by initiating a gun fight because I'm more worried about my manhood (or lack their of IMHO) and replaceable STUFF...
I WILL attempt to run away first when ever confronted by home invasion, personal assault, or any other form of violence, and I WILL only shoot to kill if left with no other choice.
I was all f*ck Obama, pro gun, pro NRA, etc. I was like "these anti-gunners are making sh*t up" and that "most gun owner are responsible", but after listening to how a lot of other gun owners talk, I'm starting to understand why the other side feels the way they do...
+1
Talk about 100% BS! This issue is not about guns, it is about self-protection. Cowards only embolden criminals and encourage them to continue to victimize others. Every person who lacks the courage to stand their ground and confront those who would commit crime upon them, are simply allowing the problem to continue and to grow.
The criminal you would allow to get away after they broke into your house while you were running away will go on to victimize others. Your pseudo concern for your neighbors and bystanders is false, if indeed you cared about others you would confront the criminal and protect both yourself and your community.
Seems to me this is the perfect "incident" for the ultra liberal government and DOJ to continue with their gun grab from law abidizng citizens looking to protect themselves and their families from thieves and violent criminals. Why do they never address all the shootings in Chicago which within city limits has a ban on handguns? They want to disarm us so they can CONTROL us. The idiocracy going on in this country is astonishing to say the least.
Are you kidding? They won't address it because it would follow that they should do something about it. Such as knock on the doors of those they know (and they do know) harbor guns illegally. That, of course, is unconstitutional, so they instead try to undermine the 2nd Amendment.
Did you see the angry crowds this weekend, and the wimpy attempts of the cops to control them? In one FL town, the cops turned tail and left unsuspecting drivers to contend with people rocking and stoning their cars. That sight/thought, not unusual even after disasters such as hurricanes where looting occurs, should scare the bejeebers out of everyone. Bottom line: We'd better be responsible for our own safety. Because, in the end, we are.
I do not agree that one should be able to provoke a situation or purposely place themselves in a situation to where they're life might be in danger, and then claim self defense afterwards... I shouldn't be able to go into a bar while armed, intentionally pick on and start sh*t with a unarmed 6"5 250lb UTF fighter and then claim self defenses and legally be able to kill him while he's in the middle of giving me the ass whipping that I asked for.
So basically you're saying minorities shouldn't walk in urban attire in White neighborhoods, or they deserve to be harassed and/or shot if they get tired of the harassment? You're a segregationist and an elitist?
You just answered the OP's question. People who think like Todd is what's wrong with Stand Your Ground.
You can't go into a bar while armed. It's illegal even if you have a CCW.
I agree with you. It's a law full of holes, and does the law address what would be reasonable fear of one's life or fear of his or her life being threatened? I am asking this because someone who raises his or her voice at someone could be perceived by the person as a possible threat or possible fight about to occur. And if the person is bigger or stronger than they person he or she is raising his voice at, could that mean that the person fears his or her life or feel in danger.
Going to the Treyvon Martin murder. Since it's a fact that George Zimmerman did following Treyvon, could Treyvon have thought that his life was being threatened? Could that have been a reason for the confrontation between George and Treyvon?
Watch the video posted earlier. He gives examples of advantage of force or advantage of numbers along with many other examples.
100% Bull.. I own an AR15, Remington 870 shotgun (with the evil pistil gripped and collapsible stock), 9mm, and a .357 Mag with plenty of ammo. If someone was breaking into my house, I would flee first if if possible. Not because I'm scared to protect myself, but because I'm not a blood thirsty fool who need to prove how manly I am by taking the life of another human being when I could have avoided it. Because I do not want to risk my life, the lives of my family members, the lives of my neighbors and innocent bystanders, and even the life of the idiot breaking into my house by initiating a gun fight because I'm more worried about my manhood (or lack their of IMHO) and replaceable STUFF...
I WILL attempt to run away first when ever confronted by home invasion, personal assault, or any other form of violence, and I WILL only shoot to kill if left with no other choice.
I was all f*ck Obama, pro gun, pro NRA, etc. I was like "these anti-gunners are making sh*t up" and that "most gun owner are responsible", but after listening to how a lot of other gun owners talk, I'm starting to understand why the other side feels the way they do...
+1
is morphing into it's your duty to SYG. Only cowards run away. You are a "good guy with a gun". It's your duty to shoot that "bad guy (with a gun)". I put that in parens because it is not really necessary. Apparently, you only have think the bad guy has a gun like you do.
It's frightening to anyone who doesn't want to carry a gun.
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"no duty to retreat"
