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Old 07-25-2013, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,738,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Enlightenment View Post
Why is the US public school system so bad?

It isn't. Given the demographics of the United States, results are quite good. School quality must be judged on value added, not absolute results. The finest schools in the world could not raise a kid with a double digit IQ to the level of education Will Hunting reached alone in a public library.


Being ranked in the 91st percentile is very good. It means being better than all but the top 9%.

Percentile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The nations scoring better have a fraction of the population of the U.S. and associated diversity.
The U.S. literacy rate remains amongst the highest in the world.
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:22 AM
 
7,300 posts, read 6,733,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach View Post
You have to realize what America is famous for - and how the nation is observed by more aware and more informed people- You are looked upon with disrespect because most Americans no little about the rest of the world. A real education must encompass every thing and every body. Americans have been educated through media and through entertainment. Good down to earth wisdom is not something popular or sought after.
Absolutely!!
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:26 AM
 
7,300 posts, read 6,733,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
They group students by skill/ability levels. The U.S. doesn't for the most part in public schools (and many private schools - be careful, there), and refusing to do so has dragged academic achievement down rather significantly. The greatest losses have been suffered by our best students, with substantial losses also occurring in the middle. Very slight gains have been achieved by the bottom. Academic leveling. We're all the same now, slightly below average, as that's the level at which a majority of students can achieve.

A college professor examines the issue here:The Other Crisis in American Education - The Atlantic

Of particular note, in the section titled The Incubus Of The Sixties:And, in The Shock Of College-Level Demands:
This particular passage nails it...
Once again, this does not explain why the children of Chinese studying in public schools in the U.S. are outperforming American students in every area by leaps and bounds. You're not addressing the issue, which is American students of all levels, and their insistence to be spoonfed like infants.
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:27 AM
 
Location: DFW
40,951 posts, read 49,189,517 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
Do schools have to share money they raised from donations too or just money collected from taxes revenue?
I believe just through tax revenue.

Some large developments have passed a 1% fee when you sell a home that goes to local schools.
Since it's not a "Tax" it stays within the local school district.
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,738,058 times
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In the 60's South Korea had an economy equivalent to the least-developed countries in sub-Saharan Africa. In the next four decades, due to an increasingly educated workforce, it emerged as one of East Asia's tiger economies. Today, education remains the guiding principle of South Korean society, from affluent city dwellers to the poorest villagers.

With an ethic reminiscent of postwar America, South Korean parents here almost universally make their children's education the family's unquestioned priority. Parents do without and spend 1/3 of their family income on private schools and/or tutors.

An experienced secondary-school teacher makes almost 25% more than a comparable American teacher, according to OECD data. Educators are respected in South Korea whereas many in the U.S. view educators as living off the public dole.

Whereas the U.S. dropouts of an earlier era could count on landing well-paying factory jobs in the American heartland, today's dropouts confront a reordered globalized economy where unskilled work increasingly is migrating to low-wage nations in Asia or Latin America.

The South Korean formula combines fierce societal pressure, determined parents and students who study nearly round-the-clock. After a typical eight-hour school day, most students spend their remaining waking hours in private tutoring or reviewing schoolwork. This is what it takes. How many U.S. students, regardless of race or ethnic background do the same?

USA could learn from South Korean schools - ABC News

Last edited by middle-aged mom; 07-25-2013 at 10:03 AM..
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,738,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogersParkGuy View Post
The US public school system is not bad all the way around. In fact, some of the best schools in many states are public schools.

The problem with US public schools is they are massively unequal. This is because the base of funding for US public schools is local property taxes. Wealthy districts, where property values tend to be high, have much greater resources to work with than poorer districts where property values are low. Add to that the fact students in poor areas tend to have greater special needs and more problems, and you have a perverse scenario. The more privileged kids already are, the better their public schools tend to be. The more disadvantaged kids are, the worse their public schools tend to be.
Unless I am behind the times, the state sets schools spending per child, in California. Every student receives the same amount of tax dollar, regardless of location. The teachers are paid the same regardless of where they teach.
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:53 AM
 
4,698 posts, read 4,074,443 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
At first I thought it was money, but we spend the most and spend the same percentage of GDP as England and they are ranked 6th. Then I thought it was school choice, but both countries with and without school choice outperformed the US. Demographics doesn't explain the reason either as the ISD where my parents use to live was only ranked in the 91st percentile and that place is 90%+ white.

Is it just culture? Culture certainly plays a role, but I don't think that tells the whole story either.

Thoughts?
First off American school system is not the worst among developed countries. If you adjust for demographics, then US schools is average among developing countries. That is because US does one thing right. Many American students work decently hard compared to their peers in Europe.

I have attended school in Europe and in the US and I know exactly why US students do not do better. While European schools can often promote too much laziness, american schools do not promote critical thinking. For instance in maths people were just memorizing formulas. For instance you learned how to do questions like 3x^2 + 2x +5 = 0 by completing the square a million times, but if you gave a student a little bit different question, then they were unable to do it. Thats why US does badly in PISA, because PISA expects more critical thinking.

In every class it was like this. Despite being a foreign student with not very good English I was able to get A in native English class because I did all my homework, memorized the words for the spelling test and when we had to write essays then the writing skills was only a small component of the essays.

In every single class it was like this. If you did your homework and put in some extra effort, you would get an A. In Norwegian school, which is much more lazy than American school. No matter how much effort you put in, you may never get top grade in Norwegian because they were judging your actual performance. While the math material was in fact easier than America, they still expected you to solve different kind of problems.

If America is going to do better in education, then America need to promote more critical thinking.
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:08 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saritaschihuahua View Post
Once again, this does not explain why the children of Chinese studying in public schools in the U.S. are outperforming American students in every area by leaps and bounds.
Yes, it does. You've forgotten to notice that Asian families, in general, seek out the better performing public schools when choosing a place to live.

Furthermore, Asian families who were unhappy with comparatively higher-performing public schools in the N and NW suburbs of Chicago started their own private school so their kids wouldn't fall behind when it was time to return to Asia.
Quote:
In 1976, Chicagoland Japanese national parents asked the Japanese government to establish a Japanese day school in the area, because they did not want their children to be unprepared for the Japanese educational system."
Chicago Sun-Times

Those are the suburbs that host such very highly-performing public schools as Deerfield, Stevenson, Highland Park, Prospect, Hersey, etc.
Top High Schools | Best High Schools | US News
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:16 AM
 
7,300 posts, read 6,733,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
First off American school system is not the worst among developed countries. If you adjust for demographics, then US schools is average among developing countries. That is because US does one thing right. Many American students work decently hard compared to their peers in Europe.

I have attended school in Europe and in the US and I know exactly why US students do not do better. While European schools can often promote too much laziness, american schools do not promote critical thinking. For instance in maths people were just memorizing formulas. For instance you learned how to do questions like 3x^2 + 2x +5 = 0 by completing the square a million times, but if you gave a student a little bit different question, then they were unable to do it. Thats why US does badly in PISA, because PISA expects more critical thinking.

In every class it was like this. Despite being a foreign student with not very good English I was able to get A in native English class because I did all my homework, memorized the words for the spelling test and when we had to write essays then the writing skills was only a small component of the essays.

In every single class it was like this. If you did your homework and put in some extra effort, you would get an A. In Norwegian school, which is much more lazy than American school. No matter how much effort you put in, you may never get top grade in Norwegian because they were judging your actual performance. While the math material was in fact easier than America, they still expected you to solve different kind of problems.

If America is going to do better in education, then America need to promote more critical thinking.
I agree that critical thinking is discouraged here in the U.S.

English is not my native language, but in classes, I paid attention, behaved myself accordingly, did all my homework at home, studied for tests, studied things TWICE if I didn't understand them and tried to figure things out MYSELF. This is huge. American kids don't want to figure anything out. Anything! It's as if their brain hurts if you ask them to make an effort.

American students are lazy and non-thinking, they think school is a place to socialize, want the answers spoonfed, and they're light years from the students I taught in Spain. In Spain, students take studying VERY seriously. Here? Students think it's a joke, and their parents don't want their kids to exert their brains (heaven forbid!!!), and it matters not if they're rich or poor. As I said before, at least the poor have myriad reasons why they don't perform well. The rest don't have the disadvantages of poverty. They simply don't want to use their neurons. Maybe it short-circuits their brain or something.
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:19 AM
 
7,300 posts, read 6,733,220 times
Reputation: 2916
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Yes, it does. You've forgotten to notice that Asian families, in general, seek out the better performing public schools when choosing a place to live.

Furthermore, Asian families who were unhappy with comparatively higher-performing public schools in the N and NW suburbs of Chicago started their own private school so their kids wouldn't fall behind when it was time to return to Asia.Chicago Sun-Times

Those are the suburbs that host such very highly-performing public schools as Deerfield, Stevenson, Highland Park, Prospect, Hersey, etc.
Top High Schools | Best High Schools | US News
BS. Chinese students attend public schools. Offhand, I know of 3, and they're outperforming other students. Chinese students exert themselves, try to figure things out themselves, don't want them spoonfed and others figuring out the answers for them. You're encouraging a sense of entitlement and a laziness of mind, which doesn't surprise me one iota.
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