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Old 07-30-2013, 12:11 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
18,927 posts, read 14,111,175 times
Reputation: 16638

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The term "Socialism" is often deliberately misapplied so to confuse the audience.

Socialism is a flavor of "Collectivism," which boils down to the abolition of absolute ownership by individuals.
It does not necessarily mean nationalization of industry or expropriation of all property to the State. But it IS evident when all major items of ownership are taxed, licensed, and administered by the benevolent State. (Sarcasm flag off)

If you cannot work, travel, own, live, or acquire shelter without first buying permission (license) or paying taxes, you're enjoying real socialism (i.e., part-time slavery).

It matters little that there are sanctioned recipients of public charity. Compulsory charity is a curse, not a blessing, as is voluntary charity.

And when the "system" penalizes the productive for the benefit of the non-productive, human nature will skew society toward the beneficiary, and not the donor. Then civilization will collapse.

 
Old 07-30-2013, 12:18 AM
 
3,183 posts, read 7,183,989 times
Reputation: 1818
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
We fought for our independance to get away from garbage. There's a reason why we're the most productive nation in the world. There's a reason why we're the wealthiest nation in the world. We can take trillion dollar hits and no one bats an eye except the paranoid. How many socialised nations can do that?
Unless a person is in the 3% who control 95% of this countries wealth where do you get this"WE STUFF" you keep talking about....lol
 
Old 07-30-2013, 07:33 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,795 posts, read 7,273,371 times
Reputation: 5194
Quote:
Originally Posted by crestliner View Post
Unless a person is in the 3% who control 95% of this countries wealth where do you get this"WE STUFF" you keep talking about....lol
The 95% that have that wealth were able to accumulate it by "socialism".
Monopolies are not a byproduct of a free market economy. They are the byproduct of a country where the government restricts the right and the liberties of the citizens and gives special privilege to corporations.
The reason governments have the power to do this is because "socialists" have given government more power than it was granted under the Constitution.
Government always works in the interest of the Corporations, and not in the interest of the people, and yet ignorant “progressives” continually work for larger and larger government.
It is a mixture of ignorance and insanity that manifests itself into a religion of complete faith in the State, and the promise of being “given” what they are unwilling to earn for themselves.
 
Old 07-30-2013, 07:40 AM
 
3,728 posts, read 4,861,625 times
Reputation: 2293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortoggie View Post
I have long thought that our interstate highway system is socialistic. Just think about it; anybody can ride on it whether they pay are not. My mother-in-law road the roads for years with one or the other of her children and never bought a gallon of gas nor paid any road taxes. None of us minded, because granny took care of our children, cooked some great meals and in general made us feel like a real family.
Don't remember anyone bringing up the subject of it being socialism but it kinda was.
That type of infrastructure is not generally considered to be a social program, so it is not socialism.

Socialism and government are not exactly the same things. Although socialism does require government.

Classical liberalism views the legitimate functions of government to be the courts, the military, the police, fire protection and other emergency services, basic infrastructure like roads, and significant portion would include K-12 education as well.

The problem is several posters on this thread (mostly left-wingers) are confusing government with socialism which are not the same things. Also, just because a country has some socialistic programs such as universal healthcare or publicly funded university education that does not mean that they are social countries. That is why all the pro-socialism people are using Canada, Germany, and so on as successful examples of socialism. But those countries aren't that far to the Left of the USA. Try Venezuela or Cuba or Laos for a better example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogersParkGuy View Post
Most of the Americans who "hate" socialism couldn't write a coherent paragraph about it, couldn't explain the differences between Michael Harrington and Rosa Luxemburg, couldn't name three living, self-identified Americans socialists (e.g. Mike Davis, Chris Hedges, Stephanie Coontz). They know nothing about it whatsoever. The are just repeating what they hear on right-wing talk radio, Fox News, and read in right-wing rags life FrontPage.
I am sure most Americans probably couldn't tell you the major differences between Italian Fascism, Nazism, and Hungarian Fascism. That doesn't mean they are wrong about Fascism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reactionary View Post
Ever Adrift = "...the Nazis, who referred to their party as Socialist despite being the exact opposite (fascist)"

Fascism is rooted in Marxism just as is Communism. They are not opposites - the policies are much the same with varying degrees of state control. Fascism is 'right wing' only to someone further left. Both ideologies are left wing compared to free market capitalism.

"...use Socialism to bring about a Communist paradise and extinguish Western values, economics, etc. through a very radical view of the ideology that is not at all characteristic of modern European socialism"

This is the technocratic viewpoint - we'll do it better than those "disastrous" Communists, or Pan-Arab Socialists, or Juche, or African National Congress. Instead of better, people get Saddam Hussein and Bashar Assad, the Kim dynasty, and Robert Mugabe.
Fascism is socialistic, but it is a type of non-Marxist socialism.

I find it funny there are several Lefties who always claim that Fascism is the opposite of socialism. They also will gleefully point to a number of socialist programs in the US and other developed nations, but ignore that Nazi Germany had a large number of similar socialist programs, but the Nazis weren't socialist because that would be inconvenient.
 
Old 07-30-2013, 07:46 AM
 
3,537 posts, read 2,730,466 times
Reputation: 1034
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chenika View Post
Seriously.... Why are Americans so Anti-Socialised? Reading on this forum I am speechless.

They hate government restriction, hate labor law protecting workers, and so pro corporates. Are people brainwashed or whats going on?

Take a look at Germany as an example... Socialized nation with lower unemployment rate than us, higher quality of life, much less or no poverty, and largest economy in Europe. They have 82 million people, still a lot.
You have created a thread based on an irrational, emotional, unsubstantiated post.

Please educate yourself as to what socialism is, where and how it is applied.

Also understand America does use some aspects of socialism and some aspects of capitalism.

Unfortunately corruption and cronyism has infiltrated the system to such a degree the economy is unable to progress. The American system is not the problem it is the people running the system that are the problem.
 
Old 07-30-2013, 08:52 AM
 
4,739 posts, read 10,406,854 times
Reputation: 4186
Frank_Carbonni - great post however I will quibble about Fascism being non-Marxist socialism. IMO it was a question of 'branding' the fascist movement to provide differentiation in the marketplace of socialist ideas.

The biggest difference between Communism and Fascism is that Communism is 'International' socialism (Communism knows no boundaries) and Fascism is 'National' socialism (based on race). Hitler wrote about his 'innovation' in Mein Kampf: "If the National Socialist Movement should fail to understand the fundamental importance of this essential principle [race] ...it would really do nothing more than compete with Marxism on its own ground."

Marxism has racist beginnings, too. Karl Marx's old buddy Frederick Engels wrote in "The Magyar Struggle":

"...in Scotland, are the Gaels, ...in France, are the Bretons, ...in Spain, are the Basques, ...in Austria, are the pan-Slavist Southern Slavs, who are nothing but the residual fragment of peoples, resulting from an extremely confused thousand years of development. That this residual fragment, which is likewise extremely confused, sees its salvation only in a reversal of the whole European movement, which in its view ought to go not from west to east, but from east to west, and that for it the instrument of liberation and the bond of unity is the Russian knout — that is the most natural thing in the world.

...The next world war will result in the disappearance from the face of the earth not only of reactionary classes and dynasties, but also of entire reactionary peoples. And that, too, is a step forward."

Neue Rheinsiche Zeitung No. 194 January 1849

Engels saw that the "Southern Slavs" were slowing down the spread of Marxism, so he approved of their "disappearance". Small wonder that Marxism produces so many genocidal tyrannies, er, utopias...
 
Old 07-30-2013, 08:57 AM
 
Location: PA
5,562 posts, read 5,673,464 times
Reputation: 1962
Socialism in its many forms mixed with capitalism, corporatism works for those who use it and or benefit from it. Socialism when people choose to believe in that form of society function and economic dependance will work. If you want to be tied to the failures of socialism and the government who forces it on you to pay for all their mistakes and failures your welcome to continue this way of life. I prefer a free society where all of my labor and the fruits of my labor are mine and what I do with my money is my business. I want a justice system that judges based on liberty and the defense of the individual. If any corporation and or business and government uses force and controls individuals choices with force and or uses government to benefit from laws that remove the freedom of choice should be brought up on charges.
 
Old 07-30-2013, 09:26 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,956 posts, read 24,675,783 times
Reputation: 9728
There is an interesting article on privatization on the Guardian website today. Doesn't seem like that is the solution...

Serco: the company that is running Britain | Business | The Guardian
 
Old 07-30-2013, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
20,054 posts, read 18,251,969 times
Reputation: 3826
Germany...socialist? LOL. Dog eat dog capitalism, baby
 
Old 07-30-2013, 11:27 AM
 
27,307 posts, read 16,180,034 times
Reputation: 12100
Look at Venezuela.

They socialized everything, yet can't afford to buy anything.
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