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This is one of my rare forays into the swamp of politics and other controversies forum but I couldn't help myself after our Philosopher_King-in-chief stuck his foot in it again.
Obama doubles down on stupid and repeats Ho Chi Minh lies:
Every left wing and right wing tyrant in the 20th century at one time or another compared themselves to the American revolutionaries but any other president would have had the good sense not to repeat it.
The Vietnamese leader committed a diplomatic faux pas bringing that letter in the first place but an intelligent president would have simply set it aside and not repeated it.
What an imbecile.
Ah, but here's the difference. GW Bush isn't smart enough to even try to make such a dialogue in the first place. Hell, he probably thinks he can see Vietnam from his back yard just because there's a lot of Pho restaurants in his neighborhood.
Ah, but here's the difference. GW Bush isn't smart enough to even try to make such a dialogue in the first place. Hell, he probably thinks he can see Vietnam from his back yard just because there's a lot of Pho restaurants in his neighborhood.
Thank you for this intelligent response. Typical liberal.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanhawk
This is one of my rare forays into the swamp of politics and other controversies forum but I couldn't help myself after our Philosopher_King-in-chief stuck his foot in it again.
Obama doubles down on stupid and repeats Ho Chi Minh lies:
Every left wing and right wing tyrant in the 20th century at one time or another compared themselves to the American revolutionaries but any other president would have had the good sense not to repeat it.
The Vietnamese leader committed a diplomatic faux pas bringing that letter in the first place but an intelligent president would have simply set it aside and not repeated it.
What an imbecile.
This entire thread is moronic. The OP assumes no other president has ever done this even though there is proof to the contrary. Reagan with the Taliban and North Korea, Clinton with Syria, Iran, Afghanistan, Turkey, Bush43 with well, take your pick.
Conservatives on political blogs are sad. When you dont know if something is true or not, you simply assume the side that agrees with you without even trying to find out the truth.
Actually Obama is exactly right - and the OP is displaying his profound ignorance of history (not that he's alone in that ignorance). The fact is the vast majority of Americans have no clue about the French Colonial period of French Indochina (which included modern Vietnam). The truth is that during the WWII years Ho and folks like him worked closely with the US in their joint fight against the Japanese and at the end of the war the OSS (precursor of the CIA) recommended that the US throw their support behind Ho in his struggle to evict the French from the colony. At the time however the US was more concerned with Soviet expansion in Europe and thus did not want to alienate the French because it was felt that French support of the new NATO was more important to US interests than Vietnamese independence was.
So, Vietnamese independence was sacrificed as the US decided to support the French in Indochina rather than the revoltionaries. The result is that Ho looked elsewhere for aid and found that aid in the Soviets - who were more than happy to cause trouble for any NATO member nation. Thus, rather than supporting freedom and independence in French Indochina, the US ended up supporting French imperialism there - and as a result ended up pushing Ho into the willing arms of the Soviets.
That terrible decision to support France over the native peoples of Vietnam (and Laos and Cambodia) was a horrible mistake that would come back to haunt us and cost us some 50,000 US lives in years to come.
Actually Obama is exactly right - and the OP is displaying his profound ignorance of history (not that he's alone in that ignorance). The fact is the vast majority of Americans have no clue about the French Colonial period of French Indochina (which included modern Vietnam). The truth is that during the WWII years Ho and folks like him worked closely with the US in their joint fight against the Japanese and at the end of the war the OSS (precursor of the CIA) recommended that the US throw their support behind Ho in his struggle to evict the French from the colony. At the time however the US was more concerned with Soviet expansion in Europe and thus did not want to alienate the French because it was felt that French support of the new NATO was more important to US interests than Vietnamese independence was.
So, Vietnamese independence was sacrificed as the US decided to support the French in Indochina rather than the revoltionaries. The result is that Ho looked elsewhere for aid and found that aid in the Soviets - who were more than happy to cause trouble for any NATO member nation. Thus, rather than supporting freedom and independence in French Indochina, the US ended up supporting French imperialism there - and as a result ended up pushing Ho into the willing arms of the Soviets.
That terrible decision to support France over the native peoples of Vietnam (and Laos and Cambodia) was a horrible mistake that would come back to haunt us and cost us some 50,000 US lives in years to come.
Actually Obama is exactly right - and the OP is displaying his profound ignorance of history (not that he's alone in that ignorance). The fact is the vast majority of Americans have no clue about the French Colonial period of French Indochina (which included modern Vietnam). The truth is that during the WWII years Ho and folks like him worked closely with the US in their joint fight against the Japanese and at the end of the war the OSS (precursor of the CIA) recommended that the US throw their support behind Ho in his struggle to evict the French from the colony. At the time however the US was more concerned with Soviet expansion in Europe and thus did not want to alienate the French because it was felt that French support of the new NATO was more important to US interests than Vietnamese independence was.
So, Vietnamese independence was sacrificed as the US decided to support the French in Indochina rather than the revoltionaries. The result is that Ho looked elsewhere for aid and found that aid in the Soviets - who were more than happy to cause trouble for any NATO member nation. Thus, rather than supporting freedom and independence in French Indochina, the US ended up supporting French imperialism there - and as a result ended up pushing Ho into the willing arms of the Soviets.
That terrible decision to support France over the native peoples of Vietnam (and Laos and Cambodia) was a horrible mistake that would come back to haunt us and cost us some 50,000 US lives in years to come.
Ken
Ever known a commie to not hijack an otherwise honorable fight for freedom to install a communist dictatorship?
"Ho engaged in radical activities and was in the founding group of the French Communist party."
Doesn't appear that the French were the problem for Ho until they got in the way of his dictatorship in 1946.
"In August 1945, when Japan surrendered, the Vietminh seized power and proclaimed the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (DRV) in Hanoi. Ho Chi Minh, now known by his final and best-known pseudonym (which means the “Enlightener”), became president."
Ever known a commie to not hijack an otherwise honorable fight for freedom to install a communist dictatorship?
"Ho engaged in radical activities and was in the founding group of the French Communist party."
Doesn't appear that the French were the problem for Ho until they got in the way of his dictatorship in 1946.
"In August 1945, when Japan surrendered, the Vietminh seized power and proclaimed the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (DRV) in Hanoi. Ho Chi Minh, now known by his final and best-known pseudonym (which means the “Enlightener”), became president."
Being a communist does not necessarily mean that one is one bad terms with the US. We were on very good terms with communist Yugoslavia for example and that nation provided it's citizens with far more freedom than other East Block nations did. Same thing in regards to modern China. It's communist but the Chinese have a large degree of economic (though not nearly so much political) freedom and China is a HUGE trading partner for the US. There is a distinct difference between being a Communist nation and being a Soviet puppet or client state.
The fact of the matter is that things in Vietnam might have turned out very very different had the President decided to follow the advice of the OSS and supported Vietnamese independence rather supporting French Imperialism - especially since the writing was on the wall that the days of European domination of their 3rd World Colonies was coming to an end anyway.
So the point is - what exactly did supporting the French over Ho GAIN US?
Ken
Last edited by LordBalfor; 07-28-2013 at 01:28 AM..
This is one of my rare forays into the swamp of politics and other controversies forum but I couldn't help myself after our Philosopher_King-in-chief stuck his foot in it again.
Obama doubles down on stupid and repeats Ho Chi Minh lies:
Every left wing and right wing tyrant in the 20th century at one time or another compared themselves to the American revolutionaries but any other president would have had the good sense not to repeat it.
The Vietnamese leader committed a diplomatic faux pas bringing that letter in the first place but an intelligent president would have simply set it aside and not repeated it.
What an imbecile.
Unfortunately those who are familiar with the Indochina history, know that it is actually true. Ho Chi Minh was inspired by the US, and lived in US at one time, and US was his first choice as an ally, but US was not interested in such partnership.
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