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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408
I really could not think of a good descriptor for this topic, so I went for the provocative, word for word explanation.
I work for a professional services company, and the company recently lost a bid for a big job at an existing client for "being too white male." The sales guy and the CEO were really shocked that this happened because of a few things.
1. The company is about 50% female
2. One of the co-founders is female (white)
But on the day of the pitch, the sales team was white and male. Just by luck of the draw, 5 people came to the pitch and one was female. In fact, most of our sales team is white and male. The newest, and more junior sales reps are women. But the sales team is 65% white male. (and the other salespeople are also white).
The company on the whole isn't super diverse. But is reasonably diverse for the industry we are in. It is approximately 15-20% non-white. The numbers used to be a little higher, but recent turnover seems to have coincidentally been some of the nonwhite people. Looking around the room at industry events and conferences shows that my field is at least 90% white.
So the team, pitching the project was a little disappointed, and there is now an internal initiative to have the branding better reflect the diversity of the company. (The management team is nearly 50% women, but the pic on the website is old and doesn't have 2 of the newest female senior leaders)
I know some of you are going to say: that's not fair, that's totally racist!!!!
I don't know the makeup of the people in the room that day, but I do happen to know, the prospect, has a department that looks for "diversity" in all of their approved contractors. And this has been at least a 10 year initiative for them, so they have a senior VP in a role of promoting diversity within its contractor community. So they do take it seriously.
And it is a widely known problem that corporate america isn't very diverse.
And to be completely honest, our company was really stretching for this bid. The competition was top tier, big 5 professional services companies, so it wasn't going to be an easy win by any means.
You know this how? When contracts are awarded I don't know of a single entity that has a practice of tell those with losing bids why they did not get the contract... Yet you know you lost the contract for "being too white male"
So... how did you obtain this salacious bit of information?
They told the sales people straight during a follow up call. This isn't an RFP for equipment or anything like that. We had worked with the team for a smaller project so there was already a rapport there.
The proper term is "scorecard" for contracts and it's no joke. This has been in place for years in certain fields.
For instance - a Minority female gets 2 marks on the scorecard. Those involved in Government contracts have played this "scorecard game" for years. I know a situation with a Female Hispanic in a Company that does a lot of Government contracts - the 'males' (white or minority) have a specific time they must show up for work. Not so for the "scorecard" employee - she can come in at 9 am, or 10 am ..... in doesn't matter. She "ticks" 2 boxes. Another case in the same field (Engineering) - a Manager was just informed he had a "new employee" - she showed up at a Trade Show, presented her card (she is a Black Female Engineer) and said she was looking for a job. Hired on the spot with no interview, no employment history, no check of any sort. She ticks two boxes on the "scorecard". The only thing better is a disabled vet who is a minority female - that's 4 boxes. In many cases - a "Union" employee can tick another box. Business owners/leaders HAVE to pay attention to the scorecard and the boxes - they can be crucial to attaining the Contract for a Job.
Doesn't anyone remember the cases in the news a couple of years ago about the Firemen and Police Departments that use "tests" for advancement? Minorities were not doing well on the tests, the case went to court and the court (this was Elena Kagen before she was elevated to the Supreme Court) ruled that the minority had to get the promotion, regardless of the test results ...... Diversity must be maintained. I think the SCOTUS overturned her ruling, but many Cities just threw out the tests ..... too expensive to fight this in court.
It's out there - companies just have to "suck it up" and try to find somebody to tick those boxes on the scorecard and then put them Front and Center to show you are playing the game.
The test for fire and police have nothing to do with government contracting bids.
I work in government procurement and the way some posters describe it is nothing like what goes on in federal contracting especially. We do ask for minority status information but a black, woman, native American, Hispanic, veteran (which most if you probably didn't know is considered), and small/micro businesses (those that make less than 100k per year) all are considered to meet diversity goals, not just black. BTW even Asian owned businesses are considered diverse in government contracting. For the field I work in,diversity is not given a preference. Each agency has goals for diversity but that is obtained via seeking out qualified minority (all the previous categories I mentioned) vendors to solicit for bids/proposals. Once bidding is under way, diversity is nit considered when evaluating proposals for the division I work for.
Some state or local governments may have diversity quotas but that is not the trend in procurement now a days. Usually a preference is given for contractors hiring from specific neighborhoods or income demographics but not race based. Also government is not all about the point system anymore it is used but nothing like that described above it simply gives points on the appearance of the proposal, content, if the proposer is experienced, if they can follow directions in regards to submission guidelines, price (which is always given the most weight) and finally an additional preference point given to firms committed to hiring, training or interviewing qualified people who live near a construction site. Points are given for those categories. No boxes are checked for women, Hispanics, blacks or veterans. You can also always ask to review an agency's sourcing strategy guidelines, along with filing a ddispute if you feel you are wronged in the procurement process.
I really could not think of a good descriptor for this topic, so I went for the provocative, word for word explanation.
I work for a professional services company, and the company recently lost a bid for a big job at an existing client for "being too white male." The sales guy and the CEO were really shocked that this happened because of a few things.
1. The company is about 50% female
2. One of the co-founders is female (white)
But on the day of the pitch, the sales team was white and male. Just by luck of the draw, 5 people came to the pitch and one was female. In fact, most of our sales team is white and male. The newest, and more junior sales reps are women. But the sales team is 65% white male. (and the other salespeople are also white).
The company on the whole isn't super diverse. But is reasonably diverse for the industry we are in. It is approximately 15-20% non-white. The numbers used to be a little higher, but recent turnover seems to have coincidentally been some of the nonwhite people. Looking around the room at industry events and conferences shows that my field is at least 90% white.
So the team, pitching the project was a little disappointed, and there is now an internal initiative to have the branding better reflect the diversity of the company. (The management team is nearly 50% women, but the pic on the website is old and doesn't have 2 of the newest female senior leaders)
I know some of you are going to say: that's not fair, that's totally racist!!!!
I don't know the makeup of the people in the room that day, but I do happen to know, the prospect, has a department that looks for "diversity" in all of their approved contractors. And this has been at least a 10 year initiative for them, so they have a senior VP in a role of promoting diversity within its contractor community. So they do take it seriously.
And it is a widely known problem that corporate america isn't very diverse.
And to be completely honest, our company was really stretching for this bid. The competition was top tier, big 5 professional services companies, so it wasn't going to be an easy win by any means.
you are so out of touch with reality. lol It's a wonder that you even exist.
I mean I think it's hilarious that there are white people who actually walk around with the working chemicals in their brains who actually believe this.
other than the attack you have not said much about my post friend. not out of touch at all, personally know recruiters doing exactly what i just described. i dont feel bad about it, i think there is real opportunity for african americans and many are taking advantage of it, but i think that our anglo job hunters need to rethink their career goals there are windows open but its not the liberal arts degrees.
france is experiencing a similar problem. france does not need 20 million more managers with general ed advanced degrees any more than we do. they need to follow the high tech trade jobs as does germany and so do we.
To the OP how do you know that is the reason your firm lost the bid? Did you seek a dispute? I ask because as I stated above, I work in procurement and most losing bidders/proposers blame their loss on either race or the relationship a contracting agency has with supposedly someone in the winning company. Usually, the real reason is a matter of cost or a comparison of proposed services. The other company may have offered additional incentives that were cost effective effective for the agency/ company that your company did not. As long as we (government procurement officials) let diverse companies compete for projects, we fulfill our goals. We don't have to award to diverse firms to meet those goals but if our outreach is successful usually diverse firms will win one sometime.
The test for fire and police have nothing to do with government contracting bids.
I work in government procurement and the way some posters describe it is nothing like what goes on in federal contracting especially. We do ask for minority status information but a black, woman, native American, Hispanic, veteran (which most if you probably didn't know is considered), and small/micro businesses (those that make less than 100k per year) all are considered to meet diversity goals, not just black. BTW even Asian owned businesses are considered diverse in government contracting. For the field I work in,diversity is not given a preference. Each agency has goals for diversity but that is obtained via seeking out qualified minority (all the previous categories I mentioned) vendors to solicit for bids/proposals. Once bidding is under way, diversity is nit considered when evaluating proposals for the division I work for.
Some state or local governments may have diversity quotas but that is not the trend in procurement now a days. Usually a preference is given for contractors hiring from specific neighborhoods or income demographics but not race based. Also government is not all about the point system anymore it is used but nothing like that described above it simply gives points on the appearance of the proposal, content, if the proposer is experienced, if they can follow directions in regards to submission guidelines, price (which is always given the most weight) and finally an additional preference point given to firms committed to hiring, training or interviewing qualified people who live near a construction site. Points are given for those categories. No boxes are checked for women, Hispanics, blacks or veterans. You can also always ask to review an agency's sourcing strategy guidelines, along with filing a ddispute if you feel you are wronged in the procurement process.
The people I'm referencing are not what anyone would call "small business" - these are Multi Million/Billion dollar contractor Managers who work for Fortune 500 companies.
It's real, it's counts, they pay attention and "hire" accordingly. 50+ years across 3 MAJOR contractors.
The HR department is crucial - they do extensive training with these issues. The "scorecard" is real.
I've also had conversations with local small contractors that deliberately use an Electrical firm because the owner is listed as a Minority Female ..... don't think this stuff doesn't matter, it does. I'm not saying it's "right/wrong" .... I'm saying it exists and the smart contractors know it.
quota system is far from dead. most of the college grads coming out job hunting face destitution unless they are black. a liberal arts ed is a good thing if you are african american.
if not you have better to to welding school son.
Cool story. I take it you haven't seen the stats that black college heads have twice the unemployment of white grads.
My husband worked on a levy construction project (for a national company) - 30 yrs ago - where two 'token' males were each caught sleeping (when should be traffic control) and let go - this was after ignored/forgiven dismal attendance records.
The 'token' female was like working with a 'cheerleader' - who didn't care to do all the tasks involved (help place or pick-up the traffic signs, in the rain or hot sun, etc) - however she did make for great 'how was your day' stories!! I never laughed so regularly in my life!! I looked forward to hearing each next 'episode'.
It's too bad - it was a great paying job - for sitting and standing around quite a lot!!
it's weird to me that you're going to find dozens of stories on this very thread about incompetent people of color or women in the work place, but no one ever seems to have a story about incompetent white men. no one ever seems to have a story about capable people of color or women. now I wonder why that is
quota system is far from dead. most of the college grads coming out job hunting face destitution unless they are black. a liberal arts ed is a good thing if you are african american.
if not you have better to to welding school son.
it's like bizarro world where some of you people* live, isn't it?
*you people refers to other CD posters. any resemblance to you people and the use of "you people" in a racist manner are simply coincidental.
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