Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Love how the clueless Leftists have jumped on this comment as some sort of breakthrough. This is pretty much what many of us have been saying on this board and it is standard Catholic practice. You love the sinner not the sin. If a homosexual seeks Gods mercy all is forgiven. As the pope correctly points out it is the lobbying that's the issue.
Notice I start my threads with the "Gay agenda". It is sinister and unholy.
That's not what he said. He said who is he to judge which is absolutely right. I am liking this new pope
I'm saying it is a fact most of those Priests were pederasts. It's a simple, glaring fact, most people to timid to stand up to the social pressure of Political Correctness will simply overlook. And this is no pressure as great as having Nazi persecution in the 1930s and 40s if you spoke up against the prevailing rhetoric. So, it takes no hard imagination to figure out most Americans today would have been utter cowards living in Germany back then.
I could have told you what a study done by John Jay would conclude about homosexuals. They are educated like many Bishops, which comes with the paradox of being stupid. All educated people need long statistical studies to figure out if a pedophile (not pederast) will be likely to re-offend. A blue collar plumber doesn't.
Pederasty or paederasty (US/ˈpɛdəræsti/ or UK/ˈpiːdəræsti/) is a (usually erotic) homosexual relationship between an adult male and a pubescent or adolescent male outside his immediate family. The word pederasty derives from Greek (paiderastia) "love of boys",[1] a compound derived from παῖς (pais) "child, boy" and ἐραστής (erastēs) "lover".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymax
Are you trying to associate gay priests with the child sexual abuse scandals just because most of the victims were boys? That's not consistent with all the evidence about child molesters. The majority of males who have an adult sexual orientation and sexually abuse boys, are heterosexual, not homosexual. A small percentage are pedophiles with no adult sexual orientation.
It's also not consistent with the findings the independent John Jay College of Criminal Justice investigation into the child sex abuse scandals within the Catholic Church.
"The data do not support a finding that homosexual identity and/or preordination same-sex sexual behavior are significant risk factors for the sexual abuse of minors."
"There has been widespread speculation that homosexual identity is linked to the sexual abuse of minors by priests, largely because of the high number of male victims identified in the Nature and Scope study, however the clinical data do not support this finding"
There really is no good excuse for ignorance on this topic given the wealth of reliable evidence-based information available.
In another thread I think I posted some quotations out of a book about a psychiatrist from Harvard University, that was on a panel of psychologists and psychiatrists the Vatican asked to study the whole pedophilia thing and how to physiologically identify people with this problem etc. That psychiatrist had the testicles to state the glaring obvious: he can't be sure homosexuality was not linked in some way to priestly sex scandal given so many of the victims were boys.
It's not like these priests were locked in prison or held aboard Navy ships (in the 1800s the U.S. Navy had a huge and common place problem with both pederasty and pedophilia--homosexual sex between adult sailors was common place too). These priests had access to women like every other man living in the U.S.
But human sexuality is rather fluid. So, I can see, to some extent, a gay man banging a woman and a heterosexual man banging a small boy.
But I think my greater point about Pope Francis' comments is that his statements reflect the attitudes of most Catholic Bishops prior to the sex scandal. The idea that sinners (be they laity or clergy) are normal in society, that everyone is a sinner in one way or another, that sexual sin occurs frequently in society among human beings, that gay sex and even pedophilia as well as pederasty is ancient, that judgment of a person is really left up to God, permeated the decades of the sex abuse. Unlike modern Americans the Catholic Church does not think as in black and white terms about people being "good" or "bad." And there is an old saying about the Catholic Church, the Church is "hard on heretics and easy on sinners."
That's a frequently complaint about the Catholic Church by non-Catholics: they have lots of sinners. The Church responds with more or less a shrug of the shoulders. That's why the Protestant Reformation has been called by one historian as a conservative movement. And some Protestants claim all Christians are saints. Whereas the Catholic Church says few people are saints or evil and most of us--even the saints--have our flaws and good points.
Also, after watching Class 2 and 3 of these videos on the history of canon law, which adopted ancient Roman views of law, I'm starting to wonder if the concepts of the Latin ius vs lex had something to do with how the Church hierarchy responded. Also I wonder that because my Catholic formation made me regard morality as superior to city, state, federal laws, and therefore whereas some Americans in another thread have stated one must shoot a person even if it kills that person rather than shooting into the ground to scare them away, because "the law says so," I viewed that as just dumb, and that no law made by man can trump what's right in the "eyes" of God. That context matters.
Yeah, he is awesome! Unlike that one they had before..oh what was his name? I forgot, oh well not important who cares! lol
Pope Benedict was/is a good man. And I'm stating this as someone that was upset when he was made Pope and thought negatively of him.
But as I found out more about him I grew to really admire him. He is actually nothing as the media portrays him.
One of his leadership flaws in my opinion in terms of communication with a wider audience, is that he was too academic and very cerebral. He spoke as if he expected most of his audience to be intellectuals. Both John Paul II and Pope Francis understand much better that most their audience are essentially not that bright. I think Pope Francis is right to say the hierarchy needs to talk less intellectual and its because of this I think John Paul II and Francis have been right to steer into the MTV type generation make statements in so many ways that people want to hear.
Benedict really didn't say things most people wanted to hear. He did not turn himself into a Hollywood celebrity to appeal to young audiences like John Paul II the Great, Obama, or Bill Clinton.
It's strikes not with a bit of irony the single individual that did the most within the Church heirachy to rid the priestly ranks of pederasts and pedophiles as been the de facto "Jesus" accused and figuratively crucified in the media. Even though I loved John Paul II the Great, and I cried when he died, he had some faults (we all do). One of which was under his papacy the boy pedophile and womanizing founder of the Legionaries of Christ was given protection. That protection ended under Benedict the XVI. Even before becoming Pope he publicly bemoaned, "The filth," inside the Catholic Church within the priestly ranks.
Pope Benedict was/is a good man. And I'm stating this as someone that was upset when he was made Pope and thought negatively of him.
But as I found out more about him I grew to really admire him. He is actually nothing as the media portrays him.
One of his leadership flaws in my opinion in terms of communication with a wider audience, is that he was too academic and very cerebral. He spoke as if he expected most of his audience to be intellectuals. Both John Paul II and Pope Francis understand much better that most their audience are essentially not that bright. I think Pope Francis is right to say the hierarchy needs to talk less intellectual and its because of this I think John Paul II and Francis have been right to steer into the MTV type generation make statements in so many ways that people want to hear.
Benedict really didn't say things most people wanted to hear. He did not turn himself into a Hollywood celebrity to appeal to young audiences like John Paul II the Great, Obama, or Bill Clinton.
It's strikes not with a bit of irony the single individual that did the most within the Church heirachy to rid the priestly ranks of pederasts and pedophiles as been the de facto "Jesus" accused and figuratively crucified in the media. Even though I loved John Paul II the Great, and I cried when he died, he had some faults (we all do). One of which was under his papacy the boy pedophile and womanizing founder of the Legionaries of Christ was given protection. That protection ended under Benedict the XVI. Even before becoming Pope he publicly bemoaned, "The filth," inside the Catholic Church within the priestly ranks.
John Paul was not a hollywood celebrity like you say. He was very loved and revered by catholics who I guess saw him differently than you. Benedict should have never been pope. What a mistake that was
Yeah, he is awesome! Unlike that one they had before..oh what was his name? I forgot, oh well not important who cares! lol
Pope Francis and Pope Benedict agree on most everything, even on gay marriage. The media took the Pope's conversation with them out of context---surprising huh---LOL
He was talking about the man who he chose to run the Vatican bank being accused of being gay. The Pope said there was nothing to the rumor and anyway he could not judge the man. He meant only God judges our hearts but still the church is not changing any policies.
Pope Francis and Pope Benedict agree on most everything, even on gay marriage. The media took the Pope's conversation with them out of context---surprising huh---LOL
He was talking about the man who he chose to run the Vatican bank being accused of being gay. The Pope said there was nothing to the rumor and anyway he could not judge the man. He meant only God judges our hearts but still the church is not changing any policies.
Laugh all you want Janelle but that is not what happened. The media did not take the pope's message out of context. And how exactly do you pretend to know what the pope meant. Sorry, we finally have a pope that loves us all equally but you really don't like that do you. You wan't him to denounce gays, right
Laugh all you want Janelle but that is not what happened. The media did not take the pope's message out of context. And how exactly do you pretend to know what the pope meant. Sorry, we finally have a pope that loves us all equally but you really don't like that do you. You wan't him to denounce gays, right
No natalie, the Pope won't renounce gays. You need to read the stance of the church on gays, we don't do that. I am closer to knowing what the Pope meant since I go to Catholic web sites and read about it, do you? I do agree with the last part, the Pope loves us all equally or at least tries to like Jesus does.
And for the millionth time on C-D, stop telling me and others what we think. Geesh.
No natalie, the Pope won't renounce gays. You need to read the stance of the church on gays, we don't do that. I am closer to knowing what the Pope meant since I go to Catholic web sites and read about it, do you? I do agree with the last part, the Pope loves us all equally or at least tries to like Jesus does.
And for the millionth time on C-D, stop telling me and others what we think. Geesh.
I think I speak for many catholics who have left the church because of the scandals and weak leaders...ie the pope. We finally have a pope who accepts gays and sorry you don't agree. But maybe, just maybe many of us will come back to the church with this pope. And why the heck would I go to catholic websites to know what he meant? All you have to do is listen to his words.
I think I speak for many catholics who have left the church because of the scandals and weak leaders...ie the pope. We finally have a pope who accepts gays and sorry you don't agree. But maybe, just maybe many of us will come back to the church with this pope. And why the heck would I go to catholic websites to know what he meant? All you have to do is listen to his words.
The media distorted it like they do all interviews. All the Popes accepted gays, just not their sin. Why not listen to ALL his words? It was taken out of context.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
