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Old 10-01-2013, 09:59 AM
 
45,582 posts, read 27,180,466 times
Reputation: 23891

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This I believe is a far more effective plan to battle ObamaCare than shutting down the gov't.

Republicans Should Convert Obamacare Into a Free-Market System

Many liberals have been not-so-secretly hoping to use Obamacare as a Trojan horse for implementing a Canadian-style single-payer health care system.

...
However, if Republicans play smart, they can use the moment of Obamacare’s reckoning to erect a market-based, patient-centered system that they’ve long advocated. How?

One big obstacle to this goal has been the lack of options for individuals to purchase coverage independently of their employers. Obamacare’s insurance exchanges, essentially on-line shopping malls where consumers can compare plans and prices, could overcome that, if they were properly constructed. But currently they are not.

They are larded with excessive mandates and regulations that’ll inflate premiums and limit coverage options for individuals. Republicans should start focusing on deregulating the exchanges so that insurers can offer more customized packages that genuinely serve customer needs at affordable prices.

...
Finally, as Roy suggests, Republicans could use the exchanges as a basis for entitlement reform by transitioning Medicare and Medicaid enrollees on to them. The country doesn’t have a bottomless money pit to fund the promises made by these programs. Offering their beneficiaries an inflation-adjusted lump sum every year to purchase their own coverage will go a long way toward capping the nation’s liabilities.



Now if you dig down deep, these suggestions may need to be tweaked, but the thinking behind this is what needs to happen. This approach actually has the consumer in mind. Put out information that such and such regulation(s) harms the consumer and makes health care less affordable. We suggest doing A or B so that consumers can take control of their health care at a lower cost. Put liberals on the hot seat for defending regulations that harm the consumer.

You have got all of the companies and unions who have waivers to avoid the laws that are now in existence. Use those examples to push ObamaCare towards a free market program.

Team up with people who are in the industry and put something together that benefits Americans.
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Old 10-01-2013, 10:25 AM
 
8,630 posts, read 9,135,767 times
Reputation: 5988
If it would work and serve the American public better I'm all for it. However, that is not the case. Read up on the history of for-profit heath insurance and non-profit health insurance, the abuses that took place, the payoffs to eliminate non-profits, anti-trust regulations, regulations put in place to stop abuse. Agencies that where developed to fill the void that for-profit refused to cover. 50 state insurance regulatory agencies etc...Another words we have already been there and done that. The simple fact is as long as the US wants middlemen to deliver health care to its citizens, and those same middlemen's main priority is paying dividends to their shareholders, it will never work. What you impose is much more complicated and will take a law firm to interpret a custom health care policy to its purchaser, because hidden in that custom policy would be cracks as big as the grand canyon, denying care in order to generate profit at the expense of our family and friends lives.
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Old 10-01-2013, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
3,045 posts, read 5,243,328 times
Reputation: 5156
You mean... employ it in the way Republicans intended back when they first came up with the original framework for a national healthcare system in the 1990's as a way to fight HillaryCare? You know, the one that Romney signed in Mass. and then Obama adopted for the nation? Fascinating argument...
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Old 10-01-2013, 10:35 AM
 
45,582 posts, read 27,180,466 times
Reputation: 23891
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmking View Post
If it would work and serve the American public better I'm all for it. However, that is not the case. Read up on the history of for-profit heath insurance and non-profit health insurance, the abuses that took place, the payoffs to eliminate non-profits, anti-trust regulations, regulations put in place to stop abuse. Agencies that where developed to fill the void that for-profit refused to cover. 50 state insurance regulatory agencies etc...Another words we have already been there and done that. The simple fact is as long as the US wants middlemen to deliver health care to its citizens, and those same middlemen's main priority is paying dividends to their shareholders, it will never work. What you impose is much more complicated and will take a law firm to interpret a custom health care policy to its purchaser, because hidden in that custom policy would be cracks as big as the grand canyon, denying care in order to generate profit at the expense of our family and friends lives.
We have not done anything like this. The opportunity is there to change things.

Right now, the current system is flawed. ObamaCare is flawed. Have you heard how much abuse is involved in Medicare, Medicaid, and other government programs? It's a bunch.

At least the for-profit companies have an interest in providing good care. I would trust the majority of private companies way more than any government operation.

Complicated? - ObamaCare is going to be a bunch of trouble. Almost four years since it's passed, and it has pretty much been a mess - and it's expected to be a mess. Put private companies in charge and it would get done better. May not be perfect, but so what - nothing's perfect.
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Old 10-01-2013, 10:36 AM
 
45,582 posts, read 27,180,466 times
Reputation: 23891
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwkilgore View Post
You mean... employ it in the way Republicans intended back when they first came up with the original framework for a national healthcare system in the 1990's as a way to fight HillaryCare? You know, the one that Romney signed in Mass. and then Obama adopted for the nation? Fascinating argument...
At this point, it's law and we have to deal with it.

I would rather PPACA not exist at all. Don't twist this as though I support this stupid bill, because I don't.
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Old 10-01-2013, 10:37 AM
 
Location: NC
1,672 posts, read 1,771,362 times
Reputation: 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
This I believe is a far more effective plan to battle ObamaCare than shutting down the gov't.

Republicans Should Convert Obamacare Into a Free-Market System

Many liberals have been not-so-secretly hoping to use Obamacare as a Trojan horse for implementing a Canadian-style single-payer health care system.

...
However, if Republicans play smart, they can use the moment of Obamacare’s reckoning to erect a market-based, patient-centered system that they’ve long advocated. How?

One big obstacle to this goal has been the lack of options for individuals to purchase coverage independently of their employers. Obamacare’s insurance exchanges, essentially on-line shopping malls where consumers can compare plans and prices, could overcome that, if they were properly constructed. But currently they are not.

They are larded with excessive mandates and regulations that’ll inflate premiums and limit coverage options for individuals. Republicans should start focusing on deregulating the exchanges so that insurers can offer more customized packages that genuinely serve customer needs at affordable prices.

...
Finally, as Roy suggests, Republicans could use the exchanges as a basis for entitlement reform by transitioning Medicare and Medicaid enrollees on to them. The country doesn’t have a bottomless money pit to fund the promises made by these programs. Offering their beneficiaries an inflation-adjusted lump sum every year to purchase their own coverage will go a long way toward capping the nation’s liabilities.


Now if you dig down deep, these suggestions may need to be tweaked, but the thinking behind this is what needs to happen. This approach actually has the consumer in mind. Put out information that such and such regulation(s) harms the consumer and makes health care less affordable. We suggest doing A or B so that consumers can take control of their health care at a lower cost. Put liberals on the hot seat for defending regulations that harm the consumer.

You have got all of the companies and unions who have waivers to avoid the laws that are now in existence. Use those examples to push ObamaCare towards a free market program.

Team up with people who are in the industry and put something together that benefits Americans.
Is this satire? Obamacare is almost there...
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Old 10-01-2013, 10:51 AM
 
8,630 posts, read 9,135,767 times
Reputation: 5988
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
We have not done anything like this. The opportunity is there to change things.

Right now, the current system is flawed. ObamaCare is flawed. Have you heard how much abuse is involved in Medicare, Medicaid, and other government programs? It's a bunch.

At least the for-profit companies have an interest in providing good care. I would trust the majority of private companies way more than any government operation.

Complicated? - ObamaCare is going to be a bunch of trouble. Almost four years since it's passed, and it has pretty much been a mess - and it's expected to be a mess. Put private companies in charge and it would get done better. May not be perfect, but so what - nothing's perfect.
That is correct, nothing is perfect. I witnessed absolute neglect by for-profits. My wife worked around for profits and witnessed neglect time and time again both in her business and the receiver there of. It is immoral to allow for-profits to be the deliverer of health care in its current form. I agree Obamacare is full of flaws also. Would you be for privatizing local and national police forces, fire departments etc? Of course not, so why would one want the same profit motive to be involved in the delivery of your health care? You don't and you don't even know it. I am not for the elimination of for-profits, but only as supplemental coverage, and regulated to the utmost. Again, read up on the history-formation in why the US put in place the system we currently have. Its an eye opener.
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Old 10-01-2013, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,731,596 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Have you heard how much abuse is involved in Medicare, Medicaid, and other government programs? It's a bunch.

Abuse? You mean like Congress protecting the interests of the Big Pharma lobby and not allowing Medicare to negotiate the price of prescription medications as is done everywhere else on earth? As a result, the government and the people pay more than is paid anywhere else?

Abuse? You mean like hospital and medical practice billing fraud?

Abuse? You mean like all those darling companies that sell $1000 walkers and bill Medicare for the same walker one could buy for $59.95 at Walmart?


At least the for-profit companies have an interest in providing good care. I would trust the majority of private companies way more than any government operation.

Really? What did you think of the private company who vetted Snowden and the naval yard shooter?

What do you think of privately operated state prisons who lobby for protracted deportation procedures and the War on Drugs including weed?

What do you think of the privately owned companies who charge a tax on their phone bills to provide free phones to " qualified" people and then do not qualify them?

Complicated? - ObamaCare is going to be a bunch of trouble. Almost four years since it's passed, and it has pretty much been a mess - and it's expected to be a mess. Put private companies in charge and it would get done better. May not be perfect, but so what - nothing's perfect.
Complicated? The U.S. has 50 state politically appointed insurance commissions who make state laws. No two states have the same laws.

The health exchanges consist of private insurers.
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Old 10-01-2013, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,731,596 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post

One big obstacle to this goal has been the lack of options for individuals to purchase coverage independently of their employers. Obamacare’s insurance exchanges, essentially on-line shopping malls where consumers can compare plans and prices, could overcome that, if they were properly constructed. But currently they are not.

They are larded with excessive mandates and regulations that’ll inflate premiums and limit coverage options for individuals. Republicans should start focusing on deregulating the exchanges so that insurers can offer more customized packages that genuinely serve customer needs at affordable prices.
The state regulated private insurance companies brought you the following:

People with pre-existing conditions were denied insurance by private insurers.
Almost 50 million people have no insurance for a variety of reasons.
Another 50 million or so are underinsured with sub prime policies with high deductibles and very low annual/lifetime caps. These sub prime policies preclude their use for routine medical care and prove to be substantially inadequate, in the event of a serious accident or medical diagnosis.

Preventative medicine and early detection go a long way towards creating a more healthy population and increasing the quality of life. That it became necessary for federal government to mandate a simple baseline of service says all that can be said about the private healthcare system in the U.S.
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Old 10-01-2013, 11:19 AM
 
45,582 posts, read 27,180,466 times
Reputation: 23891
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmking View Post
That is correct, nothing is perfect. I witnessed absolute neglect by for-profits. My wife worked around for profits and witnessed neglect time and time again both in her business and the receiver there of. It is immoral to allow for-profits to be the deliverer of health care in its current form. I agree Obamacare is full of flaws also. Would you be for privatizing local and national police forces, fire departments etc? Of course not, so why would one want the same profit motive to be involved in the delivery of your health care? You don't and you don't even know it. I am not for the elimination of for-profits, but only as supplemental coverage, and regulated to the utmost. Again, read up on the history-formation in why the US put in place the system we currently have. Its an eye opener.
I don't equate my personal health care to police and fire services.

I want people who have a vested interest in providing me good services. Otherwise, I believe I will encounter people who do not have my best interest at heart giving me service. I want to be in control of how much I spend and what kind of coverage I get.

Or if I don't want health care insurance - I should have the option to pay out of pocket. Should have nothing to do with gov't.

My whole point of this is that I believe ObamaCare's purpose is to lead us to a single payer system - which is unacceptable. We need to steer ObamaCare in another direction. It's law - we have to deal with it.
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