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Old 08-06-2013, 02:25 PM
 
18,794 posts, read 8,420,430 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oberon_1 View Post
Wrong! These weren't the Chinese. America shoved outsourcing and trade agreements in their throats. Always thinking of the next big bubble... I spoke with Chinese and Indians - some are not happy with the pace these changes are taking place. The east, values balance and harmony and these were upset by the American onslaught. Currently 200M people are displaced from Chinese villages (where they lived for centuries) flooding the cities. That is a main source of concern for Chinese leaders. Their entire social fabric is shaken.
Without industrialization there would be nothing to compete with. Without industrialization there would be no reason for us to outsource there. And this all happened in China through systemic economic reforms that started in the late '70's.

File:Prc1952-2005gdp.gif - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 08-06-2013, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Where they serve real ale.
7,242 posts, read 7,892,050 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carterstamp View Post
This is what happens when price is the only criteria in Government Contracts.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/05/op...l?ref=politics

The Price of ‘Made in China’

HERE is a symbol of China’s assault on the American economy: the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge, which connects Brooklyn and Staten Island. This landmark, which opened in 1964, is North America’s longest suspension bridge. It’s also in urgent need of renovation. Unfortunately, $34 million in steel production and fabrication work has been outsourced to China.
The same thing happened with the new Bay Bridge in the San Francisco Bay area. They automatically went with Chinese made steel because they thought it was cheaper but much of it was lower grade and didn't pass quality control after it was delivered so it had to be replaced. The total cost ended up being higher than if they just used American made steel plus if they had picked the American bid the steel companies would have built a new metal fabricating plant in the bay area providing jobs and the capacity to bid on other projects in the future.
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Old 08-06-2013, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Where they serve real ale.
7,242 posts, read 7,892,050 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
This is the real answer, becasue if the quality is satisfactory, go with the low price.
The problem is the initial purchase price is hardly ever the total cost. When the low cost crap fails in just half the projected life span and has to be replaced did you really save any money? Or would you have been better off buying the 10% more expensive stuff which would have actually lasted twice as long?
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Old 08-06-2013, 02:49 PM
 
18,794 posts, read 8,420,430 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Think4Yourself View Post
The problem is the initial purchase price is hardly ever the total cost. When the low cost crap fails in just half the projected life span and has to be replaced did you really save any money? Or would you have been better off buying the 10% more expensive stuff which would have actually lasted twice as long?
I agree, that's why you have to ascertain the quality.
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Old 08-06-2013, 02:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oberon_1 View Post
Simply: why wasn't almost no competition with Asia before 1980?
It was difficult to ship between Asia and the U.S., in the early days of the Japanese industrial revolution.

However, the straight answer for your question is: there was. Japan had just begun to recover from WWII by the 1960's. By 1980 Japan was firing on all cylinders.



Quote:
Asia is there for a long time...
Yes, Oberon, Asia is there for a long time. Asia and North America were both formed in the Early-Middle Jurassic period.

Quote:
And when robotic aliens from space will land one day on planet earth, we aren't supposed to compete with these as well, although some may like aliens who don't eat and rest...
oh, okay.
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Old 08-06-2013, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,567 posts, read 12,792,358 times
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Garlic- It's all about the garlic grown in China in human sewage then shipped to Canada and America...Canada has the best garlic in the world- Fresh- robust plants...clean and safe...and of the greatest flavor...Yet in my local store all I see is garlic from China...when twenty miles north of my city great garlic is grown in abundance.

My little corner supermarket which was owned by the same Korean family for 35 years had great high quality produce. The business was sold recently to first generation Canadians of Chinese decent - They get some sort of cheap deal on large amount of produce shipped in from China...I was about buy some GARLIC - yes it looked okay..but I did notice that there were tiny flies within the packaging...flies usually are not attracted to garlic.

I took the stuff home and was about to start cooking. I broke the good looking imported garlic apart only to find it was filled with blue mold...and dried out to the point of unusable. I took it back and she said "I will give you your money back" Fine- so I gave the young Asian girl a lecture on product form China...I explained that the business they bought was established and did well - but it would fail - They did not realize that products of China have no such thing as quality control and that customers will get pissed off. Next day I came in - bushels of product that was inferior were pulled from the shelves....


When I hear stories about vegetables being grown in China right next to run off ditches coming from battery factories....well - I don't want that crap in my body...They have outlawed some products from China- If they were to test ALL of the product they would find that most is tainted...but of course there are great profits to be made selling poison.
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Old 08-06-2013, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,699 posts, read 24,780,162 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabchuck View Post
Very sad to see this $_hit going on. I work in the auto industry, on the E&D side of it. Mostly plastic injection molded parts. We have a directive to outsource our tooling, not because its less expensive (because it isn't)but because some of the shops that we've helped set up are sitting idle. Then once the tools get here, they usually have to be fixed at a very high cost because they weren't built right to begin with or components have failed due to crap steel. In the end it costs more , just like offshoring designs did but the bean counters and managment seem to be able to hide those costs.
I've heard all about the crappy mold cavities and dies that have been shipped here to be fixed. In the end, it's a big loser, but bean counters get their bonuses in the end. Such a shame, because it kills a lot of formerly good paying blue collar jobs. These days, even if you wanted to make this stuff in the states, good luck. There are hardly and mold any die shops around here anymore. Nobody knows that a tool and die maker is, and I doubt you would find anyone willing to learn for the wages being paid. This is the price of made in China.
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Old 08-06-2013, 08:51 PM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,567 posts, read 12,792,358 times
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Why do their screws strip instantly or why do their bolts break? There is an old bridge made of iron that spans the south end of the Don River in Toronto. The metal is thick...well formed and it is branded with MADE IN ENGLAND....That old bridge is as solid as it was 80 years ago. It's simple...remember when when Japan was soaking up our scrap metal and melting it down to make cars that they sent back here....For about 20 years all you saw were fairly new rusted out autos everywhere...China is the same- they take the garbage scrap from all over the world and smelt down with little or no quality control what so ever.
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Old 08-07-2013, 06:56 AM
 
29,181 posts, read 14,465,656 times
Reputation: 14322
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
I've heard all about the crappy mold cavities and dies that have been shipped here to be fixed. In the end, it's a big loser, but bean counters get their bonuses in the end. Such a shame, because it kills a lot of formerly good paying blue collar jobs. These days, even if you wanted to make this stuff in the states, good luck. There are hardly and mold any die shops around here anymore. Nobody knows that a tool and die maker is, and I doubt you would find anyone willing to learn for the wages being paid. This is the price of made in China.
The tool shops that made it thru are busier than hell, fixing all the garbage we get from China and other offshored places. We actually had a complete line of molds ruined because the ship got stuck and it took months to finally get them.. when we did they were all rusted. During that wait we had to source a local US shop to make them because we HAD to have them done for the customer. Guess what, we paid close to double because of "premium" that was added to shrink the build timing. Offshoring really worked in that case didn't it ?
Another supplier i worked at we had to send a certain amount of "hours" of work to our friends in India. Well 9 times out of 10 it was faster to do the work here, and when they would finally get our work back it was wrong. So we would send the work to make managment happy and then just do it here so we could get it done and done right.

There does seem to be some light at the end of the tunnel. It looks like a lot of companies have decided to start keeping the work here. It's seems like it's slowly making a turn around. Sad thing is much of the talent is long gone, retired or in other professions. How many journeyman Tool and Die guys, Mold makers, or machinists are left ? In my trade true experienced designers (or draftsmen as we used to be called) are few and far between. Sure many of these kids with engineering degrees come out of college thinking they are designers and they will tell you that.. as they design up a part that can't come out of the mold.
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Old 08-07-2013, 07:59 AM
 
18,193 posts, read 25,763,135 times
Reputation: 53408
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesGTAIV View Post
No matter how you look at it, we chose to create this monster. The corporations chose to cut costs and we chose to follow them to the depths of hell since we didn't stop buying from them.
That's pretty much the size of it!
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