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Old 08-05-2013, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Barrington
57,750 posts, read 39,584,184 times
Reputation: 18729

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
Typical lib- class warfare and eat the productive to help the non-productive.

The wealthy already pay all the taxes. How about a constitutional balanced budget amendment and restoring fiscal sanity for those RECORD LEVELS OF FEDERAL REVENUES WE ALREADY HAVE!
Has anyone in Congress proposed a bill to switch themselves from pension to a 401K?
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Old 08-05-2013, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,068 posts, read 77,252,838 times
Reputation: 27656
Companies started ending defined benefit plans over a decade ago.
They moved people to defined contribution plans and 401K.
They saw what was happening and they acted.

The chickens are coming home to roost for public employees.
And the PBGC won't be there to help them either.
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Old 08-05-2013, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Minnysoda
10,180 posts, read 9,507,086 times
Reputation: 6407
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Has anyone in Congress proposed a bill to switch themselves from pension to a 401K?
Don't they get both??? Sheesh I have better bennys than those guys
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Old 08-05-2013, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
34,333 posts, read 44,101,238 times
Reputation: 23366
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Companies started ending defined benefit plans over a decade ago.
They moved people to defined contribution plans and 401K.
They saw what was happening and they acted.

The chickens are coming home to roost for public employees.
And the PBGC won't be there to help them either.
401k's may not sit well with public employers. In fact, it could make matters worse for them. All it does is transfer future risk for underperformance to the employee. It still requires that the governments make their contributions. In fact, because the contributions can't be deferred, delayed or misappropriated to other causes means that government will have less flexibility, if you want to call avoiding legal obligations "flexibility". They will have to make their payments on time and in the full amount of the agreement they have made with the employee or face legal consequences. Now, they can and do (which is the cause of the problem) simply fail to pay their share to the plans leaving the plans underfunded. It doesn't work that way when you have an employer/employee 401k style plan. Also, assuming the government will administer most 401 accounts, it will leave them wide open to employee lawsuits for mismanagement as well should losses occur. Be careful what you wish for.
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Old 08-05-2013, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
26,051 posts, read 15,870,643 times
Reputation: 7778
Quote:
Originally Posted by carterstamp View Post
A lot of public service employees are going to get a rude awakening when they go to retire. These states need to do what Florida did, require employee contributions to the state pension plan.

Pandemic of pension woes is plaguing the nation

Detroit, you're not alone.

Across the nation, cities and states are watching Detroit's largest-ever municipal bankruptcy filing with great trepidation. Years of underfunded retirement promises to public sector workers, which helped lay Detroit low, could plunge them into a similar and terrifying financial hole.

A CNBC.com analysis of more than 120 of the nation's largest state and local pension plans finds they face a wide range of burdens as their aging workforces near retirement.
They made corrupt deals between unions and politicians. "I'll scratch you back with campaign donations and issue ads, if you give us huge pensions and other sweet deals"
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Old 08-05-2013, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,301 posts, read 20,468,339 times
Reputation: 6531
Quote:
Originally Posted by artisan4 View Post
Tax reform involving raising taxes on the upper class and wealthy corporations, getting rid of flat/regressive tax rates, and working together as a nation will solve our fiscal problems, not the me-first, screw everyone else mentality of the Republican Party. The right is trying to destroy the lives of public employees in the same manner as they attack the poor. Domestic enemies.
Destroy them how? By requiring them to participate in their own future pension plans? I don't feel it is unreasonable for those who do civil service to have retirement plans that reflect or are comparable to the private sector.
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Old 08-05-2013, 05:40 PM
 
2,633 posts, read 3,240,243 times
Reputation: 1682
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Has anyone in Congress proposed a bill to switch themselves from pension to a 401K?
Congress is covered by the Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS). FERS has a small pension (typically 25% of their final salary) and a 401K option called TSP. Members get matching contributions up to 5% of their salary, which is invested in TSP's mutual fund options.

more info here:
tsp.gov
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Old 08-05-2013, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Minnysoda
10,180 posts, read 9,507,086 times
Reputation: 6407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
401k's may not sit well with public employers. In fact, it could make matters worse for them. All it does is transfer future risk for underperformance to the employee. It still requires that the governments make their contributions. In fact, because the contributions can't be deferred, delayed or misappropriated to other causes means that government will have less flexibility, if you want to call avoiding legal obligations "flexibility". They will have to make their payments on time and in the full amount of the agreement they have made with the employee or face legal consequences. Now, they can and do (which is the cause of the problem) simply fail to pay their share to the plans leaving the plans underfunded. It doesn't work that way when you have an employer/employee 401k style plan. Also, assuming the government will administer most 401 accounts, it will leave them wide open to employee lawsuits for mismanagement as well should losses occur. Be careful what you wish for.
Are all 401's that way? I have a 401A(?) 457B and PERA.. I don't put much into the 401 as I'll admit I don't understand it all that well. I get a 1$ for 1$ for the 457 and put the match money into the 401 leaving more room for my money in the 457......
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Old 08-05-2013, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
34,333 posts, read 44,101,238 times
Reputation: 23366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
They made corrupt deals between unions and politicians. "I'll scratch you back with campaign donations and issue ads, if you give us huge pensions and other sweet deals"
Florida is a right to work state. I doubt employee unions have any teeth whatsoever outside of public safety unions. The vast majority of Fl public employees probably take whatever they are offered or look somewhere else.
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Old 08-05-2013, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,068 posts, read 77,252,838 times
Reputation: 27656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
401k's may not sit well with public employers. In fact, it could make matters worse for them. All it does is transfer future risk for underperformance to the employee. It still requires that the governments make their contributions. In fact, because the contributions can't be deferred, delayed or misappropriated to other causes means that government will have less flexibility, if you want to call avoiding legal obligations "flexibility". They will have to make their payments on time and in the full amount of the agreement they have made with the employee or face legal consequences. Now, they can and do (which is the cause of the problem) simply fail to pay their share to the plans leaving the plans underfunded. It doesn't work that way when you have an employer/employee 401k style plan. Also, assuming the government will administer most 401 accounts, it will leave them wide open to employee lawsuits for mismanagement as well should losses occur. Be careful what you wish for.
Welcome to the club. The private sector got hit with that starting in 2000.
That's why you see those "we'll manage your 401K" talks in DC every couple of years.

The employer doesn't manage 401K accounts..brokerage firms do.

It was already successfully done to the private sector. You are full of these "what if's" that aren't going to happen.

Be careful what you wish for ? LOL..it's either going to be that or they will be SOL with nothing like municipalities have already done.
I would say if you are a public sector employee close to retirement then take the lump sum and get yourself an annuity.

Last edited by HappyTexan; 08-05-2013 at 05:49 PM..
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