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libertarians are largely lazy (in the political sense), overly self involved, somewhat paranoid, yet productive individuals with vices that they want to be open about...
WTF? That's smashing a square peg into a round hole and exclaiming "it fits!"
Most Libertarians have "morally overlearned", and "non Libertarians" (I guess you would call them that) haven't grasped the concept yet. It is only a matter of time until they do though.
I wouldn't count on it after seeing the kinds of secular nonsense posting that goes on in this place. Hopefully CD isn't a slice of the wider populous. If it is, we're screwed.
Libertarians tend to expose the hypocrisies on both sides. Both sides manage to agree (one of the few things they can agree on) to hate us, making us the most logical choice to believe. If the establishment cared about doing the right thing, Libertarians would have been taken seriously years ago. Now that both parties are turning into totalitarians, we're getting a little more respect (especially from Independents) because we were right all along.
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Originally Posted by Patricius Maximus
Libertarians are smart people who, unlike the varieties of statists in the world, are not ideologically handicapped. At least that's the way I see it .
And then I'm surprised by a few who actually "get it", and there's hope again.
I wouldn't count on it after seeing the kinds of secular nonsense posting that goes on in this place. Hopefully CD isn't a slice of the wider populous. If it is, we're screwed.
The contingent that have nothing better to do than spew hate at their ideological opponents is overrepresented here, for obvious reasons. Most comment boards at news sites are the same way, and I'm pretty certain that very few people talk or think like that offline.
Besides, with a concerted political campaign/education effort it won't make much of a difference in the end.
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If the establishment cared about doing the right thing, Libertarians would have been taken seriously years ago. Now that both parties are turning into totalitarians, we're getting a little more respect (especially from Independents) because we were right all along.
Exactly, and that's why people like Michael Lind, Karl Rove, Peter King, and Chris Matthews all seem to be trembling in fear at the thought of politicians with even slight libertarian inclinations gaining any power. The totalitarians and most other species of statists are on the road to extinction and will be finished off once current trends in public opinion towards libertarianism manifest themselves.
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And then I'm surprised by a few who actually "get it", and there's hope again.
Here, here .
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Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey
Conservatives who are atheists and sometimes racist.
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Originally Posted by wutitiz
quite possibly one of the most ill-informed posts EVER on CD. There is NOTHING in libertarianism that implies either atheism or racism. NOTHING.
Exactly. Many libertarians are atheists but libertarianism is an ideology concerning the role of government, which has nothing to do with religion or how one conducts one's personal life.
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Originally Posted by Roadking2003
That's creative, and strange.
I don't know any Libertarians who fit that description.
I've scoured libertarian writings from a myriad of sources and I've yet to encounter racism. I'm sure racist libertarians do exist but they must be few and far between. It would be odd for a racist to be a libertarian, considering that the non-aggression principle and anti-collectivism fit best with the idea of equality for all people and judging on one's individual merits rather than the color of one's skin.
I think it's wishful thinking to think that everything will be okay without a central bank.
What I fail to recognize, is why a central bank is actually necessary. This country spent quite a bit of its existence without a central bank, and nothing bad happened as a result. Some could argue that the economy expanded far more quickly in those days, even relative to other nations in the world.
If we consider the fact that the United States in 1910 had effectively the highest per-capita GDP of any major country in the world. In a time when you had nearly unlimited immigration, mostly by of some of the poorest and unwanted people in Europe. It was actually a pretty impressive feat.
Furthermore, the selling point of the Federal Reserve was that it would guarantee full employment. Because it believed it could eliminate recessions. Neither of these things actually happened. In fact, within two decades after the creation of the Federal Reserve, you saw two major recessions and then the great depression(of which the Federal Reserve was largely to blame).
In reality, in regards to economic growth and stability, at best the Federal Reserve has been useless. And at worse, its been harmful and counterproductive.
If we really start looking at the Federal Reserve and its usefulness. We need to understand that the primary benefit of the Federal Reserve, is to allow the government to borrow money endlessly at low interest. And while some of this money is certainly used to fund social programs. The real purpose for the existence of the Federal Reserve is really for the benefit of the state, not the people.
But even if you are an extreme nationalist, and you are happy the government has the ability to fund "American interests", such as wars, bribes, and other "investments". You still have to recognize the ability of the Federal Reserve to be corrupted by special interests, and especially the banks, who largely control it.
But really, I don't even want to discuss the Federal Reserve, economic policy, inflation, or anything else. Because none of it addresses the fundamental question.
The real fundamental question is, is the world better off because the Federal Reserve exists? More appropriately, had the Federal Reserve never came into existence, how would the world be different? How would the United States be different?
This is right. However, I would say it's the latter after the military industrial complex. Military industries were huge prior to a true fiat.
It's no secret that the fed is in bed with the financial industry.
How? The current 0-rate policy the fed is running is hardly helping the financial industry. It is actually preventing companies from investing excess reserves, which hurts the financial industry.
Libertarians are usually far better educated in history and the Constitution than other people. They understand that the majority of what passes for law in America today is not only against the spirit of the Constitution but the legal word as well.
How? The current 0-rate policy the fed is running is hardly helping the financial industry. It is actually preventing companies from investing excess reserves, which hurts the financial industry.
Well, not really. The financial industry sets its rates relative to the fed's rate. Financial industries effectively take the money they borrow at a given interest, then loan it out at about a 2% to 10% above that(credit cards are more like 20%+).
The truth is, the banks don't really have money in the way you think they have money. It isn't as if the banks are sitting on a pile of cash, and they want to earn money off that money, like you and me, so they decide to lend it out at interest. No, the banks are almost always completely leveraged. And when they want to make a loan, they generally aren't taking from the real deposits in their bank. No, when the banks loan money, they are actually borrowing the money that they are loaning, from the federal reserve system.
It is true that you have money market accounts, and savings accounts, and that does provide the bank with some money to lend. But the reality is that, savings accounts have been a pretty terrible thing for most people to have. Since with the Fed's rates so low, the current savings accounts are paying far less than the rate of inflation. If you have money in a savings account, you are losing money. Although not as quickly as if you just had it lying around in cash.
Furthermore, companies aren't not investing money because of low interest rates. That is silly. Investing has very little relation to interest rates, unless you have to borrow money to invest(and if you are borrowing money to invest, the lower the interest rate the better).
No, the reason companies aren't investing money, is because there really isn't anywhere to invest money. I mean, where would you put your money if you were a company? I wouldn't exactly be wanting to invest money in American manufacturing(that's a sinking ship). Or really, most American businesses in general, other than maybe Google or Apple or some other major established corporation that is actually making money. And I wouldn't want to be investing money overseas, with Europe the way it is, and with the United States being hostile towards other countries in regards to "off-shoring" jobs, and threatening to tax tax tax anyone who invests overseas.
Throw on top of this the new healthcare system, which many companies aren't even sure how its going to work. And you end up with a lot of uncertainty in the market. Where everyone is scared to throw money into much of anything.
As for the Federal Reserve. I suppose I'm kind of envious of the banks. Think of what you could do, if you could get nearly unlimited money at basically zero percent interest from the Federal Reserve.
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