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Old 08-11-2013, 09:03 PM
 
937 posts, read 1,133,009 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrestigiousReputability View Post
Most black people wouldn't be interested in those areas b/c:

1. There is Harlem which is also in Manhattan which provides pretty good convenience while much less expensive. There are also other affordable areas in the outer-boroughs(by NYC standards) that have majority black populations that they could live in and blend in at.
I lived in Harlem for a number of years on 121st street (in the Mount Morris Park Section). Truth be told, the majority of middle class black people can no longer afford to live there. Have you checked out the average rental rates or condo prices? The average 1 bedroom apartment in West Harlem easily rents for 1800++ /month (depending on the location and apartment amenities). The average 1 bedroom condo is easily over 400K.

Understand that the bulk of blacks that are in Harlem are able to reside there because they are living in government subsidized housing projects. If you take away all of the projects throughout Harlem, trust me the number of black residents would reduce dramatically. I'm speaking as a person who is very familiar with the overall West Harlem community, because I lived there for a number of years.

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2. Most of the clubs/social events don't have notable black presences in those areas. Most ppl regardless of any race prefer to fit in so what would be the purpose of wasting so much money in that area?
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Of course i'm sure there are some here and there that want to live there but most don't have the desire. If they did then you would see black kids from all over the country putting their money together and renting a closet for $3000/mo.
I don't agree. Anyone familiar with rental rules knows that this wouldn't be possible. There are occupancy restrictions in place for most apartments, especially in areas like Soho and West Village. Also, you are negating the relatively high black unemployment rates. How exactly are black kids going to rent an apartment in Soho or pretty much anywhere, when many are unemployed or underemployed?

 
Old 08-11-2013, 09:09 PM
 
937 posts, read 1,133,009 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itshim View Post
Exactly.

Not only that, but if what Citygirl were saying were true....then the black neighborhoods would mimic the commercial interests of those in white neighborhoods.In other words, if black people wanted to live in the West Village enmasse, then Brownsville (for example) would look like the West Village commercially. The stores would look the same, the people would dress the same and their social clubs would be the same...but they aren't.
I don't think the bulk of black people want to reside in Brownsville, due to all of the crime and violence. I'd definitely advise people who have the means to live elsewhere.
 
Old 08-11-2013, 09:11 PM
 
530 posts, read 1,355,829 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by CityGirl332 View Post
I lived in Harlem for a number of years on 121st street (in the Mount Morris Park Section). Truth be told, the majority of middle class black people can no longer afford to live there. Have you checked out the average rental rates or condo prices? The average 1 bedroom apartment in West Harlem easily rents for 1800++ /month (depending on the location and apartment amenities). The average 1 bedroom condo is easily over 400K.

Understand that the bulk of blacks that are in Harlem are able to reside there because they are living in government subsidized housing projects. If you take away all of the projects throughout Harlem, trust me the number of black residents would reduce dramatically. I'm speaking as a person who is very familiar with the overall West Harlem community, because I lived there for a number of years.
WEST Harlem aka Morningside Heights has never even been a black neighborhood. I agree that West Harlem is a very pricey area, it is essentially an extension of the Upper West Side. And a lot of Columbia University students/grads live over there.

As for Central Harlem, which is the black part of Harlem, rents are generally reasonably low compared to the rest of Manhattan though quickly going up due to gentrification (whites wanting to live there). If you look at rents in Central Harlem they are much less than the rest of Manhattan. Check any rental website to confirm this.

I do agree that the black middle class in Harlem is not that strong and most black people in Harlem are low-income. The areas with the strongest black middle class within NYC are the areas that I mentioned within my previous post.

Quote:
How exactly are black kids going to rent an apartment in Soho or pretty much anywhere, when many are unemployed or underemployed?
I'm not negating that most black people in NYC face an intense struggle, my original point was that most successful blacks in NYC choose to live in areas with black majorities.

When I was talking about black kids not coming together and putting their money to rent an $3k closet in those trendy places, I was talking about black transplants from other parts of the country. Or even black kids from the suburbs which you yourself even admitted that middle class black families oftentimes fled to. So in a nutshell, I was speaking of TRANSPLANTS.
 
Old 08-11-2013, 09:18 PM
 
937 posts, read 1,133,009 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrestigiousReputability View Post
WEST Harlem aka Morningside Heights has never even been a black neighborhood. I agree that West Harlem is a very pricey area, it is an extension of the Upper West Side. And a lot of Columbia University students live over there.

As for Central Harlem, which is the black part of Harlem, rents are reasonable though quickly going up due to gentrification (whites wanting to live there). If you look at rents in Central Harlem they are much less than the rest of Manhattan.
I lived on West 121st and trust me, the rents over there are not reasonable. Many of the rentals don't even include a washer and dryer in the unit and the rent is typically over 1700. At this stage in my life I can certainly afford the rent, but it was a struggle as a recent college grad, who was working an entry level/professional position within my industry.

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I'm not negating that most black people in NYC face an intense struggle, my original point was that most successful blacks in NYC choose to live in areas with black majorities.
I don't agree. Areas like Harlem, Ft. Greene etc., are largely gentrified (this is where many wealthy blacks choose to live). I find it hard to believe that wealthy blacks who work in finance/banking, law, medicine, entertainment, etc. are moving into majority black areas like Brownsville, etc.

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When I was talking about black kids not coming together and putting their money to rent an $3k closet in those trendy places, I was talking about black transplants from other parts of the country. Or even black kids from the suburbs which you yourself even admitted that middle class black families oftentimes fled to. So in a nutshell, I was speaking of TRANSPLANTS.
Well, I can think of a myriad of reasons as to why black "kids" wouldn't be interested, but the chief reason is financial. Many wouldn't be interested living with 4 other people and not even having a bedroom of their own (especially if they make enough to get an apartment independently in the Bronx or cheaper areas of Brooklyn).

This is why I believe it's largely financial. Heck that's the real reason why many middle and upper income whites moved into Harlem. They were priced out of areas below 96th Street.

Also, I never really paid much attention to the Central Harlem label. As far as I was concerned, I lived on the West Side in Harlem.
 
Old 08-11-2013, 09:20 PM
 
1,203 posts, read 1,239,415 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Black kids can't even trick or treat to certain homes. La Raza isn't about integration or assimilation.

Sign in front of Northeast El Paso home: "No blacks welcomed to trick-or-treat" - El Paso Times

"I understand she may feel that way toward blacks. She doesn't have to advertise it," said next-door neighbor Andre Sherman, who is black. "The whole spirit of Halloween is for the kids."

Sherman, 30, and his family moved in next door in January. He fears what may happen if a black child runs up to the home because Martinez has been seen carrying a rifle in her yard and yelling racial slurs.
This is a fallacious example. The woman featured in the article you cited is a loon.
 
Old 08-11-2013, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
2,171 posts, read 1,452,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
As long as it happens organically, why does it matter?

No one is barring blacks from living anywhere....and that's all that really matters.
why does it matter. because blacks are going to continue to live in their ****hole ghettos for years to come.
 
Old 08-11-2013, 09:25 PM
 
530 posts, read 1,355,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CinSonic View Post
why does it matter. because blacks are going to continue to live in their ****hole ghettos for years to come.
you don't have to feel threatened
 
Old 08-11-2013, 09:26 PM
 
Location: 20 years from now
6,453 posts, read 6,995,149 times
Reputation: 4658
Quote:
Originally Posted by CityGirl332 View Post
I don't think the bulk of black people want to reside in Brownsville, due to all of the crime and violence. I'd definitely advise people who have the means to live elsewhere.
Perhaps, but if blacks in Brownsville wanted to be West Villagers...and for whatever reason they could not afford it, then culturally Brownsville would be similar to the village because the cultural attraction for blacks to live there would be mimicked in their own neighborhoods.

But what I think you're referring to is the idea that some blacks in the worst areas would be willing to relocate ANYWHERE just to get out of there. But that isn't necessarilly the same as the desire to integrate, that's really just a matter of desperation. Integration in itself requires cultural comprimise to change. IMO there isn't anything particularly interesting to them that would attract them to relocate to the West Village inorder to integrate into the mainstream white culture there.

Not only that, but something tells me that even if the poorest blacks had the option to pick up and leave the worst areas; given the choice, the vast majority of them would relocate to other black upper middle income neighboods in NYC as opposed to the Upper West Side, The Village (East or West), or traditional middle class white areas.
 
Old 08-11-2013, 09:31 PM
 
937 posts, read 1,133,009 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itshim View Post
Perhaps, but if blacks in Brownsville wanted to be West Villagers...and for whatever reason they could not afford it, then culturally Brownsville would be similar to the village because the cultural attraction for blacks to live there would be mimicked in their own neighborhoods.
I disagree. The bulk of blacks in Brownsville are low income. As long as Brownsville remains low income, it will not be able to attract the type of businesses that are prevalent throughout West Village. Again, it's purely financial.

Quote:
But what I think you're referring to is the idea that some blacks in the worst areas would be willing to relocate ANYWHERE just to get out of there. But IMO there isn't anything particularly interesting to them that would attract them to relocate to the West Village inorder to integrate into the mainstream white culture there.
One of Spike Lee's homes is in Brooklyn. Surprise, his brownstone is not in Brownsville. Don Lemon (CNN) and Sherry Shephard (ABC - The view) own brownstones in Harlem. My point is, wealthy blacks in NYC tend to own and reside in white and/or heavily gentrified areas of the city.


Quote:
Not only that, but something tells me that even if the poorest blacks had the option to pick up and leave the worst areas; given the choice, the vast majority of them would relocate to other black upper middle income neighboods in NYC as opposed to the Upper West Side, The Village (East or West), or traditional middle class white areas.
Where are the black upper income (non gentrified) neighborhoods throughout NYC? I don't believe NYC really has any.

There are however black upper income neighborhoods in MD (Prince Georges County) and in Atlanta, GA. I'm sure there are many more in other locations as well, but NYC can not be counted, because there are no true black upper income areas there.
 
Old 08-11-2013, 09:36 PM
 
530 posts, read 1,355,829 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by CityGirl332 View Post

I don't agree. Areas like Harlem, Ft. Greene etc., are largely gentrified (this is where many wealthy blacks choose to live). I find it hard to believe that wealthy blacks who work in finance/banking, law, medicine, entertainment, etc. are moving into majority black areas like Brownsville, etc.
I agree that some well-off blacks are going to Ft. Greene. Just know that Fort Greene actually used to be a black neighborhood at one point too, now it's very diverse..

As for Brownsville, I agree. Brownsville is mostly made up of housing projects and subsidized housing. I never mentioned Brownsville, I think you mixed us up. Brownsville and East New York are places that aren't, have never been and probably will never be middle class in any kind of way.


Quote:
Well, I can think of a myriad of reasons as to why black "kids" wouldn't be interested, but the chief reason is financial. Many wouldn't be interested living with 4 other people and not even having a bedroom of their own (especially if they make enough to get an apartment independently in the Bronx or cheaper areas of Brooklyn).

This is why I believe it's largely financial. Heck that's the real reason why many middle and upper income whites moved into Harlem. They were priced out of areas below 96th Street.

I wouldn't say the "chief" reason why they don't live in those areas are financial. I agree that most black people wouldn't be able to afford those trendy parts of Manhattan but hypothetically speaking, even if they did then they probably wouldn't be attracted to the area.

What do you believe is attractive for black people down there?

I mean, there's few entertainment venues or services that are directed towards them?(like barber shops, beauty supply stores that focus on black hair, predominately black churches) They can pay 1/3rd the price for an urban lifestyle a few miles north in a community that would be 10x more accepting towards them and has more services that appeal to this demographic.

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Also, I never really paid much attention to the Central Harlem label. As far as I was concerned, I lived on the West Side in Harlem.
That's fine but you have to realize that West Harlem, Central Harlem and East Harlem are three completely different areas. They just happen to share the Harlem name.
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