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The whole point is that in reality companies aren't able to disregard their bias regarding race, gender etc. so the reason they may not want to hire you would be based on discrimination. Affirmative action's goal is to alleviate this problem.
I think that is nonsense. I have worked in cities on the East Coast and in the South. Every single company, big or small, had plent of AAs working there and they were not brought in due to Affirmative Action.
If you are skilled and presentable, people are going to hire you. People who hold barbaric racist views generally are not those with the power to hire anyone.
Affirmative Action is not discrimination. It's giving the minority group member a boost if all other things are equal. It is not giving a job away to an unqualified applicant. You might want to read some of the EEO laws that govern discrimination based on age, race, sex, religion, national origin and/or color. And now, I believe, disability.
There is no such thing as "reverse discrimination" in the law. Discrimination is discrimination.
Perhaps you want women barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen; African Americans working as slaves and having crosses burned on their lawns, and lynchings for looking at the "dominant" group; and Hispanics picking produce. But that's not the way it is, nor should it be. There are brilliant, able and dedicated people of all minorities working in the US, we need their diversity to grow and thrive.
Sorry, but your post doesn't describe my America.
Wrong, it is nothing more than an attempt to justify preferential treatment. It penalizes people who were not the offender. You seem to think that is ok, do you support the offenses of the parent being carried by the child as in the parent commits a crime, all children of the parent are also punished? If you do not, then you define a double standard and are hypocritical in your position.
It is racism, nothing short. Those who fool themselves into thinking otherwise are just racists in denial. Note that one can be a racist against their own race as well.
I remember I applied to the local police department one time in California. I showed up fully qualified. I had taken many classes in criminal and administration of justice, finished with a 98% in the Police Officers Standards of Training at one of the top training schools and had an exemplary record.
The posting did not say anything specific about who they were hiring, but upon arriving to the testing, I was taken aside and told to not waste my time applying because they would only be hiring women and minorities. Many of those people they hired had little or no education in law enforcement nor were they certified through POST.
Personally.. I'd be offended if I was somebody who got hired under Affirmative Action. It's a slap to the face, "Oh, you're not really good enough to get the job on your own.. so we'll give it to you anyways"
What about an "African American" business owner who discriminates against whites? Should he be allowed to hire only black people or be made to hire some white people?
Thing is, if we want a level playing field around the board for everybody, then quotas shouldn't just be for minorities, but for majorities as well. Such as - if the population in chicago is:
X% black
Y% White
Z% Hispanicc
W% Whatever else you want to include
Then all companies should be required to have near those percentages.
Either make quotas for everybody - or get rid of them.
Affirmative Action.. really has no place, in my eyes, in the 21st century. Anybody (here legally) can get a K-12 education. Beyond that, there's scholarships, loans, grants, etc to help with a college education. All it takes is hard work, effort, and a willingness to accept the possibility that even with a college education.. you may not make the salary you want at the company you want.
We will never be able to alleviate personal discrimination of an individual company. It's not like there's only one or two options for a job.
I think that is nonsense. I have worked in cities on the East Coast and in the South. Every single company, big or small, had plent of AAs working there and they were not brought in due to Affirmative Action.
If you are skilled and presentable, people are going to hire you. People who hold barbaric racist views generally are not those with the power to hire anyone.
I do agree that AA should be phased out eventually since people are becoming more enlightened. However, you don't have to be a barbaric racist to have this kind of bias, it can be much more subtle than that.
Just look at the composition of the Senate for example, how many women and other minorities does it have? Does that mean that white men are just so much better?
Just look at the composition of the Senate for example, how many women and other minorities does it have? Does that mean that white men are just so much better?
And while you're at it, look at the composition of the people who run for the senate.
Then you have to factor in that X% percentage of people just party-line vote without knowing who they're actually voting for. There's no pictures at the booth.
AA is infact institutionalized discrimination... Anytime that you ignore most qualified in order to meet a quota based on race or gender. That is in fact discrimination. The intent is irrelevent.
Don't say most qualified dont get ignored... I work for one of the Largest corporations in the USA, and it is indeed global. I was on the tagging commitee. Thats the team that hires.
We were told to hire x% of women, Y% of minorities. The company statement is and I quote " We are part of a diverse community, and our work force reflects this". IN theory it is perfect. However,in practice it fails. When hireing we normally need bodies now not 6 months from now... So we have been told to ignore certain short comings in some groups and to just hire them. In a Nonunion factory you don't have 1 mechanic who is the only one allowed to repair equip. Everyone is trained to do the job. Where quota systems hurt us is not all are mechanicly inclined. Some people are just not wired for production. Ignoring qualified applicants in order to satisfy a quota changes the learning curve and creates needless stress. It from a business stand point isnt very smart either. Why not just hire the most qualified and shorten the learning/ transition period ?
Ex. We hired a white woman who is 4'10" tall. We make paper towels. We turn huge 2200 lb rolls into little rolls of paper towels. How can this small woman turn such a roll to prep it? She cant. The equipment is designed around average sized people. She is unable to reach to even help us rethread the machine... She is a wonderful person and a hard worker. She is all but useless for the job she was hired to do. But she is a female..... Therfore benifitted from the quota. Her crew works harder to make up for what she is physically unable to do. So we give her the only 3 jobs her stature can handle.
AA is counter productive and I submit also feeds resentment towards those it was meant to help.
Affirmative Action.. really has no place, in my eyes, in the 21st century. Anybody (here legally) can get a K-12 education. Beyond that, there's scholarships, loans, grants, etc to help with a college education. All it takes is hard work, effort, and a willingness to accept the possibility that even with a college education.. you may not make the salary you want at the company you want.
If you're a child in a group that has traditionally benefited from affirmative action, you're also much more likely to be attending a school that has sub-par performance. You're also more likely to be economically disadvantaged or being raised by a single parent. Statistically, children with that background are less likely to succeed in an academic environment through no fault of their own; it doesn't mean they're any less intelligent or capable. They just don't have the "right" background and they have to work that much harder to overcome it.
So...if the quality of K-12 education was equal across the board and if all children had equally engaged parents and equal economic situations, then you could safely say that there's no need to "equalize" opportunities later in life.
Sadly, affirmative action doesn't even address the inequality that occurs in childhood; it just offers a hand up to those who fought their way through a less nurturing environment than what some of us were lucky enough to experience.
As for loans and grants...it's not as simple as that. I know a woman who was raised in absolute poverty who applied for scholarships and grants and got a big fat goose egg. She's now on her 13th year of attending college part-time to get her bachelor's degree, which she should receive after 14.5 years of part-time school and full-time work. She should have been given a grant, a scholarship, something...but she got nothing.
Basically, as long as your skin color is a certain hue, you get an edge. I don't agree with this....I wish it were based upon your background....ie) overcoming a bad neighborhood etc. which would accomplish the same thing.
The biggest problem with basing it on skin color is that as minorities gain more success the ones that had nice middle class or better upbringing, good schools etc. that faced little adversity are going to take up the slots which can help to "freeze out" some of the kids that had to work 2 jobs to help with rent while going to a bad school.
I'd much rather see need based that is neutral to skin color.
Lastly, my brother in-law works for a major US company in Human Resources. There is NO question that they must hire and promote to certain quotas.....or they get sued. Perhaps this is what's needed to break down the walls of the old boys club but it doesn't mean it's not happening.
So should white children who grow up in rural poverty with poor educational systems and lack of opportunities get preferential treatment to make up for this occurence? People often discount the level of white, rural poverty in America, mostly because there are no groups lobbying to get them recognition, and they are not a minority.
I do agree that AA should be phased out eventually since people are becoming more enlightened. However, you don't have to be a barbaric racist to have this kind of bias, it can be much more subtle than that.
Just look at the composition of the Senate for example, how many women and other minorities does it have? Does that mean that white men are just so much better?
Now wait a minute. You are stretching the boundaries of racism to the point where it will include anything and everything. Racism is thinking that someone is inferiour due to their skin color. How many people still believe that?
And the US Senate? Are you serious? The Senate is composed of a mere 100 members who serve for 6 years. 100 people out of a population of 300 million. Do the math. Anybody is going to find those odds nearly impossible, although it has not stopped some AAs, one of whom is running for President. Most of us have a better chance of sitting in with the Rolling Stones.
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