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Yet again we see the typical defense mechanism for the inability or unwillingness to admit that reasonable people disagree with you about morality. You must be saying to yourself, subconsciously, "I just laugh so I don't have to face the fact that I'm engaging in extreme, avaricious rhetoric."
What planet do you live on? It's certainly not Earth.
Whats moral about forcing healthy people to pay for the unhealthy?
If you think that that is the entirety of ACA then you really know very little about what you're trying to talk about.
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Originally Posted by Ed from California
What planet do you live on? It's certainly not Earth.
No, it is Earth. Meanwhile, I'm not going to stoop to the puerile level you and Frank are aiming for in a vain attempt to distract attention away from the immoral perspectives that you guys are trying to support.
Are you done with the foolishness now, and willing to start a mature conversation about caring about more than just yourself, and honorably living in community with others?
Yet again we see the typical defense mechanism for the inability or unwillingness to admit that reasonable people disagree with you about the importance of morality, and the role of respecting the needs of others, rather than just your own personal enrichment, in the consideration thereof. You must be saying to yourself, subconsciously, "I must laugh so I don't have to face the fact that I'm engaging in extreme, avaricious rhetoric."
Because you push your "sense of morality" and expect everyone to fall in line and open their wallets.
Your sense of morality promotes helplessness, victimhood and the need to be 100% supported with someone else's money.
It's hard enough today to afford living as it is without having to pay for someone else's way in life as well.
Because you push your "sense of morality" and expect everyone to fall in line and open their wallets.
Heaven forbid that basic human decency interfere with consumers' desire to spend money on comfort and luxury.
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Originally Posted by HappyTexan
Your sense of morality promotes helplessness, victimhood and the need to be 100% supported with someone else's money.
No it doesn't. Perhaps you're saying that just because don't like the impact of the nation having a health concern for its citizens on your own personal discretionary spending.
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Originally Posted by HappyTexan
It's hard enough today to afford living as it is without having to
... care about something other than yourself and your friends and family?
Yet again we see the typical defense mechanism for the inability or unwillingness to admit that reasonable people disagree with you about the importance of morality, and the role of respecting the needs of others, rather than just your own personal enrichment, in the consideration thereof. You must be saying to yourself, subconsciously, "I must laugh so I don't have to face the fact that I'm engaging in extreme, avaricious rhetoric."
Wow. Let's keep this dialogue going, bUU, because you might be able to clear up a mystery for me.
Your post drips with moral superiority, and accuses me of avarice. But I subscribe to a philosophy of social organization that requires me and everyone else to be of service to others in order to prosper. The grocer helps me feed my family; if he wishes to enrich himself, he must help more people feed more families. And the same is true in my business. I can only build sustainable increased wealth by being of greater value to the rest of society.
The issue is not whether we should help the helpless. Some are not able to meet their own needs for food, or clothing, or shelter, or health care. This is why we have government housing and food stamps and welfare--a civil (moral) society provides for those who are unable to provide for themselves.
But that issue of morality has absolutely nothing to do with the Affordable Care Act, whose unintended (or intended?) consequences will totally destroy the market for individual health insurance, where 8% of us get our coverage. (The rest is employer group coverage, Medicare, or Medicaid.) The ACA takes money out of my pocket to enrich insurance companies. The ACA not only betrayed the lie of "If you like your plan, you can keep it," it made my plan illegal--it does not even count for insurance.
But back to the point: how does a system that requires us to be of service to others in order to prosper, how is that less moral than whatever hodgepodge of "Big Brother Incompetent Compassion For Those Less Fortunate Using the Money of Others" that you believe in--exactly how is it less moral? I'm not seeing it.
Moral superiority is a nonsensical phrase, typically used by folks who are trying to cast some moral perspective in a negative light, as a reflection of being embarrassed by the lack of morality in their own perspective being exposed. There's no alternative way to express the actual negative aspects of self-focus and the actual positive aspects of social consciousness.
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Originally Posted by marcopolo
and accuses me of avarice.
I don't know you enough to "accuse" you of anything. You are expressing perspectives that "drip with" avarice, though. That doesn't necessarily make you an avaricious person, though.
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Originally Posted by marcopolo
But I subscribe to a philosophy of social organization that requires me and everyone else to be of service to others in order to prosper.
That's all fine and good. I have no problem with that, as long as it doesn't require you to ignore social obligations related to addressing economic injustice, as it pertains to the requirements of basic human decency.
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Originally Posted by marcopolo
The issue is not whether we should help the helpless.
Actually, it is. Ignoring the issue doesn't make it "not" the issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcopolo
Some are not able to meet their own needs for food, or clothing, or shelter, or health care. This is why we have government housing and food stamps and welfare--a civil (moral) society provides for those who are unable to provide for themselves.
Precisely.
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Originally Posted by marcopolo
But that issue of morality has absolutely nothing to do with the Affordable Care Act
You're wrong about that, and so the rest of what you said is just a reflection of your opinion, which I disagree with. We'll have to agree to disagree from there.
Heaven forbid that basic human decency interfere with consumers' desire to spend money on comfort and luxury.
No it doesn't. Perhaps you're saying that just because don't like the impact of the nation having a health concern for its citizens on your own personal discretionary spending.
... care about something other than yourself and your friends and family?
You promote communism. Fine..go live in a communist country where everyone shares what is given to them.
America has no "health concern". Were doctor residencies increased ?
Obamacare is about health insurance, not health CARE.
Big pharma got protected and their high cost patents extended and insurance companies have a steady income stream for life.
Doctors and hospitals got cuts and fines.
Employers and employees got mandates and penalties.
No I don't, and your lying about what I promote shows that you really aren't interested in understanding my perspective. That's fine. Just don't think that you get to lie about it without getting called out for doing so.
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Originally Posted by HappyTexan
America has no "health concern". Were doctor residencies increased ?
After lying about what I promote, why argue with me about something we don't disagree about?
I did not listen to the President's radio address. However, it is obvious that health care is not nor ever will be 'free'. I doubt that Obama actually said 'free'.
However, I am sick and tired of paying for the healthcare of deadbeats. Everyday in my job I review files of deadbeats who can afford cigarettes and booze, but can't be bothered with heath insurance for themselves or their brats.
Then, when a health problem arises, they head off for our local county hospital, declare how poor they are, sit in the waiting room for hours passing the time by playing on their 'smart' phone, undergo every conceivable diagnostic test, and I end up footing the bill, along with all of the other real estate owners of Tarrant County (for said hospital is mainly funded by realty taxes, and also some bonds and such). I am paying $1,000.00 per year for that hospital.
Let us not forget that even Obamacare will not cover 'all' people. The most chronic deadbeats will still have 'free' healthcare at the hospitals.
I have noticed that some of the most severe critics of Obamacare, in my family, are from the two members who have been receiving Federal disability benefits for 20 or more years, including Medicare.
I am used to seeing the CD unemployed deadbeats herein complain. As one gets older one finds that it is the lazy, idle unemployed who gripe the most. It used to be you met with them in bars, now you find them here, posting thousands of postings each year complaining about every matter under the Sun.
True Conservatives have long believed that each person must be responsible for themselves, if capable. As mentioned before, during the Clinton administration the conservatives demanded the individual mandate, which Clinton rejected. I agreed with those conservatives back then. I do not change my mind simply because Rush Limbaugh tells me to, or because 'a liberal' is elected president and proposes the exact same mandate. That shows a weakness of the mind.
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What planet do you live on? It's certainly not Earth.
