Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-19-2013, 12:21 PM
 
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,297 posts, read 14,164,711 times
Reputation: 8105

Advertisements

They're talking about $2700 per month per citizen without conditions. SWISS REVIEW - Basic income – better off without working?

If they can afford it, could we? Might it be cheaper than the current system?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-19-2013, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,208,835 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
They're talking about $2700 per month per citizen without conditions. SWISS REVIEW - Basic income – better off without working?

If they can afford it, could we? Might it be cheaper than the current system?
It really isn't a matter of affording it. It is really a matter of, would we even want it?

The article states a common question regarding the measure, "If you were guaranteed income regardless of if you worked, then would you work?"


I think you could easily recognize that a considerable amount of Americans would probably not care to work, if they were guaranteed an income of even $1500 a month. And really, that probably includes myself.

Furthermore, we have to look at children. For each child a person has, would they get an additional allotment from the government? If so, how much? And would that incentivize low-income people to have a larger number of children, so they could increase the amount of money they got from the government?


It is a nice gesture, but the actual outcome of a basic income, would be complete destruction.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-19-2013, 01:21 PM
 
5,758 posts, read 11,636,388 times
Reputation: 3870
It depends how the system is structured. Some countries already do this (Qatar is one example - citizens get a stipend of sorts that comes from the country's oil/gas profits), and my sense is that some kind of "negative income tax" or "universal basic income" will be implemented as the percentage of people in the workforce continues to fall. Especially if the pace of automation picks up, and more jobs are eliminated.

Quote:
I think you could easily recognize that a considerable amount of Americans would probably not care to work, if they were guaranteed an income of even $1500 a month. And really, that probably includes myself.
That wouldn't necessarily be an economic problem, though. It would increase the bargaining power/market value of individual labor, which would raise wages. We still see "tough" or "unpleasant" jobs being filled in places like oil/gas fields - just at a higher rate of pay. There is a lot of economic "deadwood" in the workforce right now - that's something we don't like to talk about - people whose removal from the workplace would actually raise productivity, and if a basic income could facilitate that, that would be a GDP booster.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-19-2013, 01:22 PM
 
29,407 posts, read 22,005,733 times
Reputation: 5455
Good. Ship all the liberals to Switzerland and they can live in the utopia they so desire.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-19-2013, 01:25 PM
 
8,391 posts, read 6,296,863 times
Reputation: 2314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
They're talking about $2700 per month per citizen without conditions. SWISS REVIEW - Basic income – better off without working?

If they can afford it, could we? Might it be cheaper than the current system?
I think the basic guaranteed income is the way to go to help low wage workers and all Americans.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-19-2013, 01:26 PM
 
8,391 posts, read 6,296,863 times
Reputation: 2314
It is important to note that the state of Alaska has a version of this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-19-2013, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
22,216 posts, read 21,676,363 times
Reputation: 7608
Who's going to pay for the shipping? I get the feeling you're good at spending other people's money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KUchief25 View Post
Good. Ship all the liberals to Switzerland and they can live in the utopia they so desire.
It will be interesting to see if this actually happens, and what would result.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-19-2013, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,738,058 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
They're talking about $2700 per month per citizen without conditions. SWISS REVIEW - Basic income – better off without working?

If they can afford it, could we? Might it be cheaper than the current system?
The Swiss impose a wealth tax which includes equity in all properties owned. Such a tax is unconstitutional in the U.S.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-19-2013, 01:31 PM
 
5,758 posts, read 11,636,388 times
Reputation: 3870
Quote:
Ship all the liberals to Switzerland and they can live in the utopia they so desire.
I'm sure it'd be for citizens only, and getting Swiss citizenship (as opposed to some kind of residency) is not that easy unless you have way more money than would qualify for a universal income scheme.

But the thing is, universal basic income is not a liberal idea. It is supported by some liberals, but its main proponents in the 1970's were economists like Milton Friedman who felt that cash transfers made more economic sense than some patchwork of restricted-category welfare schemes. His plan was to offer a tax credit to everyone in an amount somewhat below the annual minimum wage. If you owe less in taxes than your credit, you'd get the balance refunded in cash.

Minimum income schemes also show up a lot in the "social credit" movement, which has a strong contingent of supporters in the "alternative" or "populist" right.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-19-2013, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Billings, MT
9,884 posts, read 10,975,748 times
Reputation: 14180
From where will the Government get the money? Will the income tax rates go up to 65% or so to pay for this?
Remember, the Government only has money if the people give it to them. How much are YOU willing to pay to ensure that everybody has a Basic Living Stipend (BLS)?
Don't get me wrong, I love the idea! $2700 per month would be about a $700 increase over what I am now getting from Social Security and Military Retirement combined! $3000 per month would be even better! But, I am realistic enough to know that it can't work. Given the choice between working 40 hours per week, at $30 per hour, and paying about 2/3 of it in taxes, or getting $2700 per month for doing nothing, what do you think most people will do? I just do not believe that 75% of the population living off the taxes paid by 25% of the population is sustainable.
Nice dream, but I don't believe it can work!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:21 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top