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Wait...we have equality in 20 states now? What seven states joined the party?
First cousins... not SSM. LOL Twenty states (actually 19 and DC) allow first cousins to marry without restrictions. I think there are 6 others that allow it with restrictions. SSM is still sitting at 13.
As a gay man, I appreciate this. Coming out is a process, even for the loved ones of gays and lesbians. We do it in our own time and in our own way.
While I can see why you would see this policy as unequal/unfair, it seems to me that it is an attempt to make right the wrongness that in 30+ states gays and lesbians can not get married. Is it the best way? Absolutely not. The best way is to ensure that SSM is legal across the land, then policies such as this would be unnecessary.
First of all, hear, hear!
While I agree with the rest in concept, there is still the issue of state's rights. They don't all have to agree.
In my experience of almost seven decades, you can't undo past inequalities by legislating or enacting new inequalities. You just have to start curative equality on a level playing field going forward.
Untrue. First off, you're attempting to interject normal political terms into THE MILITARY. You do realize that people who enter the military trade certain freedoms and liberties for the immeasurable power and responsibility they gain in return, don't you?
Second of all, not every single homosexual military member are going to go off and abuse the 10 day uncharged leave because guess what? The leave still has to be approved!
All these outcries and crocodile tears, man. I swear. It's like you can't be happy enough that heterosexuals get literally thousands of marriage and societal benefits, but because homosexuals get ONE - just ONE - known benefit over heterosexuals and suddenly everyone is crying wolf.
As a gay man, I appreciate this. Coming out is a process, even for the loved ones of gays and lesbians. We do it in our own time and in our own way. I don't agree with the position you and Oldhag1 and supporting, but I agree that this can be a discussion where we all seek to better understand.
While I can see why you would see this policy as unequal/unfair, it seems to me that it is an attempt to make right the wrongness that in 30+ states gays and lesbians can not get married. Is it the best way? Absolutely not. The best way is to ensure that SSM is legal across the land, then policies such as this would be unnecessary.
What is wrong with having this policy? "Service members who wish to enter into what is a legal marriage in any American state, but that is not legal at their current duty station, are authorized to take up to 10 day uncharged leave to travel to a state that permits that marriage."
It still accomplishes what you want but removes the perception of being unequal/unfair.
What is wrong with having this policy? "Service members who wish to enter into what is a legal marriage in any American state, but that is not legal at their current duty station, are authorized to take up to 10 day uncharged leave to travel to a state that permits that marriage."
It still accomplishes what you want but removes the perception of being unequal/unfair.
What is wrong with having this policy? "Service members who wish to enter into what is a legal marriage in any American state, but that is not legal at their current duty station, are authorized to take up to 10 day uncharged leave to travel to a state that permits that marriage."
It still accomplishes what you want but removes the perception of being unequal/unfair.
Get over it, seriously whiny.
Why? Is this about equality and being treated equally or not? Why would you have an issue with that statement? Seriously. Or are you admitting that your objection is that you see this as something special for your chosen group and you don't want to share?
Why? Is this about equality and being treated equally or not? Why would you have an issue with that statement? Seriously. Or are you admitting that your objection is that you see this as something special for your chosen group and you don't want to share?
You have got to be freaking kidding me? In the past gay partners weren't even notified if their partner died in active service! They weren't included in burial arrangements! Children were left destitute! Partners received no benefits! And you are complaining about a handful of days here or there because people are forced to get married in the very few places it is legal. Are you serious?
Untrue. First off, you're attempting to interject normal political terms into THE MILITARY. You do realize that people who enter the military trade certain freedoms and liberties for the immeasurable power and responsibility they gain in return, don't you?
Your entire premise was that the military was acting to provide certain privileges to homosexuals so they can get married. According to what you say above, a homosexual should be fully aware that they are giving up freedoms and liberties when they join the military. In accordance, the military shall continue to provide to exception based on lifestyle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adiosToreador
Second of all, not every single homosexual military member are going to go off and abuse the 10 day uncharged leave because guess what? The leave still has to be approved!
I never said anyone would abuse it. It's just stupid to provide homosexuals extra leave because they follow a certain lifestyle while not giving heterosexuals the same leave. Your premise is that it's because all states don't allow gay marriage. But you have no interest in fixing that problem. You'd rather the military implement some band-aid solution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adiosToreador
All these outcries and crocodile tears, man. I swear. It's like you can't be happy enough that heterosexuals get literally thousands of marriage and societal benefits, but because homosexuals get ONE - just ONE - known benefit over heterosexuals and suddenly everyone is crying wolf.
Please.
You're the one who wants to keep the benefits unequal. That though-process a disgrace to this nation. Give everyone, gay or straight the same benefits. Federal and state benefits should apply to all. Stop treating them like they are different animals with different rights. You make me sick.
You have got to be freaking kidding me? In the past gay partners weren't even notified if their partner died in active service! They weren't included in burial arrangements! Children were left destitute! Partners received no benefits! And you are complaining about a handful of days here or there because people are forced to get married in the very few places it is legal. Are you serious?
I absolutely agree that what happened in the past was wrong, wrong, and wrong. I agree that gay service members deserve to be treated equally and am more than willing to do so. I am not disputing a policy of allowing service members who are not legally allowed to be married at their current duty assignment, in a marriage that is legal in at least one American state, from being allowed uncharged leave - provided it is available to all service members, regardless of demographic. That is what equality is - what you want is special treatment. Giving special privileges to a group is the very definition of discrimination and disparate treatment is against DoD policy. Yes, I am serious.
I absolutely agree that what happened in the past was wrong, wrong, and wrong. I agree that gay service members deserve to be treated equally and am more than willing to do so. I am not disputing a policy of allowing service members who are not legally allowed to be married at their current duty assignment, in a marriage that is legal in at least one American state, from being allowed uncharged leave - provided it is available to all service members, regardless of demographic. That is what equality is - what you want is special treatment. Giving special privileges to a group is the very definition of discrimination and disparate treatment is against DoD policy. Yes, I am serious.
But your own anti-gay posting history makes us doubt how genuine your position is. I see nothing wrong with the policy. I guess if the US would just legalize marriage across all jurisdictions, it would be a moot point. Maybe that's part of the reasoning
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