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Old 08-21-2013, 02:01 AM
 
41,823 posts, read 46,212,187 times
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Most of us have heard the issues with solar and wind, it can't replace baseload provided by nuclear, coal and natural gas but as the natural gas booms and more people use it that is becoming an issue for natural gas too. You can stock pile mountains of coal at a coal fired plant, a nuclear power plant in this context has an infinite amount of fuel but natural gas without on site storage is limited to the volume in the pipe. With increased demand it's straining the usable supply.

Quote:
On Feb. 9, the temperature in Boston dipped 15 degrees below freezing. Much of New England was under the white embrace of a brutal nor'easter, and electric utilities and gas companies struggled to keep their power lines pumping heat and light.

The utilities fought each other for natural gas, which supplies more than 50 percent of electric plants in that area. And while widespread blackouts were avoided, in the end, the prices of both electricity and heat quadrupled when they were most needed.

That is a cautionary tale for Pennsylvania and the electric grid that serves it -- Valley Forge-based PJM Interconnection, which is expecting an influx of new, gas-fired power plants and the retirement of more than a dozen coal plants over the next several years.

When gas is used for electricity and also for heat, there needs to be enough space in the pipeline to serve both masters.

Read more: Natural gas now serves two masters: electricity and heat - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
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Old 08-21-2013, 03:35 AM
 
Location: The Brat Stop
8,347 posts, read 6,630,056 times
Reputation: 2279
So what's your point? Should we be using coal powered cars? Cooking on coal stoves?

we get it, you love coal.
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Old 08-21-2013, 03:49 AM
 
12,858 posts, read 16,971,151 times
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Petroleum has a near monopoly on transportation fuel. Electricity and natural gas might chip away at that but coal never will. The Stanley steamer motor works went out of business 89 years ago.

Last edited by pvande55; 08-21-2013 at 03:51 AM.. Reason: Correct year
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Old 08-21-2013, 04:14 AM
 
Location: The Brat Stop
8,347 posts, read 6,630,056 times
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I having trouble stuffing this lump of coal into my car's gas tank.
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Old 08-21-2013, 05:38 AM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,416 posts, read 18,585,505 times
Reputation: 8949
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoJiveMan View Post
So what's your point? Should we be using coal powered cars? Cooking on coal stoves?

we get it, you love coal.
I think the point is clear. It is foolish to abandon coal as an energy source. Coal is abundant, and as the OP pointed out, it can be stockpiled where it is being used to meet seasonal demand increases.

Wind and solar as reliable sources are a liberal pipe dream, and are said to be "parasites," because they do not pay into the costs of the network that they attach themselves to. At times, when wind farms are not producing, they are actually draining power from the network that supports them.

Coal fired plants are not the dirty poluters of the atmosphere that they once were, but are efficient, and clean. It is pure folley to talk of shutting down these plants, and the cost to consumers of doing so is very high. If you struggle to pay your energy bills now, wait till your local supplier is forced to shut down the coal plants that are likely the source of your electic power.

Thank you, Barack Obama.
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Old 08-21-2013, 06:19 AM
 
Location: The Brat Stop
8,347 posts, read 6,630,056 times
Reputation: 2279
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
I think the point is clear. It is foolish to abandon coal as an energy source. Coal is abundant, and as the OP pointed out, it can be stockpiled where it is being used to meet seasonal demand increases.

Wind and solar as reliable sources are a liberal pipe dream, and are said to be "parasites," because they do not pay into the costs of the network that they attach themselves to. At times, when wind farms are not producing, they are actually draining power from the network that supports them.

Coal fired plants are not the dirty poluters of the atmosphere that they once were, but are efficient, and clean. It is pure folley to talk of shutting down these plants, and the cost to consumers of doing so is very high. If you struggle to pay your energy bills now, wait till your local supplier is forced to shut down the coal plants that are likely the source of your electic power.

Thank you, Barack Obama.
If you go outside when it's raining, you'll get wet.

I learning to love coal and gun huggerz, for comedic relief.
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:05 AM
 
33,415 posts, read 30,726,139 times
Reputation: 19951
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoJiveMan View Post
So what's your point? Should we be using coal powered cars? Cooking on coal stoves?

we get it, you love coal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
Petroleum has a near monopoly on transportation fuel. Electricity and natural gas might chip away at that but coal never will. The Stanley steamer motor works went out of business 89 years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoJiveMan View Post
I having trouble stuffing this lump of coal into my car's gas tank.
the neat little secret about coal is that it can be liquefied and turned into gasoline. germany did it during world war two to supplement its limited oil supplies.
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Old 08-21-2013, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Minnysoda
10,330 posts, read 9,716,068 times
Reputation: 6537
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Most of us have heard the issues with solar and wind, it can't replace baseload provided by nuclear, coal and natural gas but as the natural gas booms and more people use it that is becoming an issue for natural gas too. You can stock pile mountains of coal at a coal fired plant, a nuclear power plant in this context has an infinite amount of fuel but natural gas without on site storage is limited to the volume in the pipe. With increased demand it's straining the usable supply.
Actually this is becomeing a concern in new ng fired powerplants...Currently we a 25 mw intermediate load plant underconstruction that has a single fuel source, pipeline gas. We are also permiting and engineering the next asset, a 37mw intermediate load plant. This plant will have cng/lng storage on site enough to run the plant for 48hrs.....Back in the day we did this with true duel fuel engines NG/diesel but the cost to permit diesel plants is starting to outwiegh the cost of gas storage.....we just add the cost to utility bill....
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Old 08-21-2013, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Minnysoda
10,330 posts, read 9,716,068 times
Reputation: 6537
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
I think the point is clear. It is foolish to abandon coal as an energy source. Coal is abundant, and as the OP pointed out, it can be stockpiled where it is being used to meet seasonal demand increases.

Wind and solar as reliable sources are a liberal pipe dream, and are said to be "parasites," because they do not pay into the costs of the network that they attach themselves to. At times, when wind farms are not producing, they are actually draining power from the network that supports them.

Coal fired plants are not the dirty poluters of the atmosphere that they once were, but are efficient, and clean. It is pure folley to talk of shutting down these plants, and the cost to consumers of doing so is very high. If you struggle to pay your energy bills now, wait till your local supplier is forced to shut down the coal plants that are likely the source of your electic power.

Thank you, Barack Obama.
When it's not blowing they're sucking.....I also point that windtowers do NOT produce reactive power and are not really synchrozed to the grid they only produce real power. useless with out a means of VAR production.....
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Old 08-21-2013, 11:49 AM
 
48,507 posts, read 90,420,568 times
Reputation: 18204
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Most of us have heard the issues with solar and wind, it can't replace baseload provided by nuclear, coal and natural gas but as the natural gas booms and more people use it that is becoming an issue for natural gas too. You can stock pile mountains of coal at a coal fired plant, a nuclear power plant in this context has an infinite amount of fuel but natural gas without on site storage is limited to the volume in the pipe. With increased demand it's straining the usable supply.
You ignore the fact that there is natural gas storage .Take LNG for just one instance of storage. One really needs to search how a system works before making assumptions. The problem with coal mostly is a result of coal industries lack of investment into clean use and conversion. The Chinese now lead research in conversion.

Last edited by texdav; 08-21-2013 at 11:58 AM..
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