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I think it very telling that after asking 7 times, to no avail, whites on this forum will not answer the question of what problem or problems can be legitimately blamed on white racism, given that it has existed in this nation as a force against black progress for over 3 centuries. White society will not own up the the consequences of its wrongs. Even when white society is dragged kicking and screaming to face truth of its sins, it makes sure that all the perpetrators and victims are dead and gone before they acknowledge that it was indeed a wrong. They have NEVER, as a collective, made that admission in the present tense, about their behavior, as they, collectively, have always felt what they were doing was right or justified, which is no different from today.
White society will not own up to the consequences? Really? White people didn't fight a war that ended slavery? White people weren't killed in Mississippi fighting for black civil rights? White people didn't pass the amendments for equal treatment under the law? White people didn't send white national guardsmen to protect black children going to school? White people didn't institute school integration to send black children to better schools? White people didn't set affirmative action policies to give black kids a better chance at a college education? White people didn't set up the poverty programs that poor blacks are three times more likely to be beneficiaries of than other whites? White people didn't create a national holiday for MLK? White people didn't set up organizations like the ACLU and the SPLC that expose hatred and fight for minority rights? White people didn't create the Fair Housing and Equal Employment Opportunity organizations to help end discrimination?
Your claim that white society has done nothing is pure baloney.
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What racism will try to convince you of is that racism came to a complete halt. It stopped on the proverbial "Dime" after building up 300 years of steam and momentum, because the country told them to stop by law. Who is actually incredulous enough to believe that racism and its roots were pulled up in the 60's? Who actually believes that the racist parents of the 60's did not socialize and acculturate their children with their racist beliefs? Who actually is incredulous or dumb enough to believe that generations exist in a vacuum uninfluenced by the learned beliefs and behaviors, as well as the economic conditions, of the generation that begot them? Who is that dumb? Who actually believes that each generation is a "Fresh start". A new and different "Heat" in the relays of life independent from where the previous generation has left off and creating equal opportunity to reach the finish line at the same time as others?
Okay, well who actually believes that racism is one of the primary causes for the problems in the black community today, when blacks actually had more stable families, lower crime, and lower unemployment before the civil rights movement than after? To repeat your question, who is that dumb?
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The only way that any of this makes sense is if whites are still basically racist, which, IMO, is mostly true. It does not logically make sense to me that America can spend centuries believing in white supremacy and black inferiority and then all of a sudden not believe that, despite blacks being in an inferior condition many ways.
Well, this is exactly the accepted position of liberals and the Democrats. Their theory is that the Southern Strategy caused the parties to switch places. The Republicans who spawned Lincoln became racists, and the Democrats who spawned the KKK became civil rights champions.
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How do whites rationalize blacks inferior position, given that they give no credibility to outside forces being responsible for that condition of inferiority?
Your question there is improper because we do in fact give credibility to outside forces being responsible. We just don't give credibility to that outside force being pervasive white oppression of blacks.
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It does not take a rocket scientist to figure that out. Whites will not say that racism is to blame for any black problems because then it threatens the belief of white superiority.
No, we will not say that racism is to blame because we aren't racist. It's pretty simple. As you say, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. I am me. I know what my opinions are better than you do. You can shout that I must be racist because I'm conservative all you want, but you aren't me. I don't tell you what your opinions are. You don't get to tell me what mine are. So, knowing that I harbor no ill will towards black people, I therefore know it is false when someone tells me that my racism is to blame for some problem.
And by "you" I don't mean specifically the person who wrote the post I'm responding to. I just mean a general "you". I don't want to control womens' bodies, I don't want to destroy the Earth with uncontrolled global warming, I don't want poor people to die in the streets without medical care, I don't want to deny homosexual people the right to marry, I don't want to force people to pray in school, I don't want to hand the keys to the country over to rich corporations, I don't want to keep an arsenal of machineguns in my basement, or any of the other things that liberals tell me that I want to do. I simply want to follow the constitution as it is written and have a balanced budget with reasonable taxation levels. That's what makes me a conservative. Not racism, not sexism, not homophobia, not Islamophobia, not a gun fetish, not religious zealotry.
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Whites want to believe that they do better because they are superior and out competed blacks in a fair competition of life. They are more responsible. They are better parents. They make the better choices. They are smarter. They cannot feel superior if it is revealed that they cheated. So they do not want it revealed.
There you go again, telling people what they believe. It's like Obama's recent press conference where he said Republicans' holy grail is denying people healthcare. You make up something evil about someone else, and then you argue against it. It's pure strawman.
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beliefs have survival instincts and admitting a role of white racism causing problems would threaten the belief of white supremacy. Every time the issue of race comes up as a topic......they are averse to it because it reminds them that they cheated, which is why they cry foul and try discredit speakers who note the impact of white racism.
No, I am averse to the topic of racism because it prevents problems from being solved. It's like trying to put a square peg into a round hole. Since the problems don't come from racism, trying to solve them by ending racism won't work. And since the racism isn't truly there, ending racism won't ever happen. You can't ever succeed in stopping something that isn't started. It's like saying I need to get somewhere but I have too far to walk, so I'm going to ride a unicorn instead. Since unicorns don't exist, I will never get to my destination if I insist the only way to get there is by riding one.
I am of course speaking in big picture terms. Racism does exist. Racism does cause problems. But it isn't systemic to modern society. In the 1920s the KKK held parades. Now even saying the "N" word can get you taken to court. In the 1960s it took armed guards to escort black children to school. Now schools have affirmative action where black kids receive preferential consideration for entrance. While there are individual racists out there, there is no societal racism preventing black people from getting an education and going to work.
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The problem is not "dead and gone"....its alive and well and even exists on this forum
What exists on this forum is individual racists. This forum has no systematic racism. You get the same access, follow the same rules, and have the same freedom of speech on this forum no matter what your skin color is. It's the same in society. There are racists in society, but society isn't racist.
What are you talking about? They have acknowledged the wrongs, the country has acknowledged the wrongs.
My dad came to this country as a child with his parents after escaping one of Hitler's death camps, with parents who couldn't speak English. They basically lived in poverty here because they couldn't get great jobs. My dad learned English in school. Today he's a self-made man... with no hand-outs, no affirmative action.
We all choose our path, despite difficulties.
The question that I asked is not the question you attempted to answer/repeat. I said nothing about acknowledging wrongs, rather, I asked what problems can white racism be blamed on, given that it existed 3 centuries as an oppressive force against black Americans. I think that it is incomprehensible that an oppressive force can exist for 3 .without leaving any scars or marks.
I applaud your parents for their triumphs...though Hitler's reign was not 3 centuries.
The question that I asked is not the question you attempted to answer/repeat. I said nothing about acknowledging wrongs, rather, I asked what problems can white racism be blamed on, given that it existed 3 centuries as an oppressive force against black Americans. I think that it is incomprehensible that an oppressive force can exist for 3 .without leaving any scars or marks.
I applaud your parents for their triumphs...though Hitler's reign was not 3 centuries.
My answer would be, probably a similar place that, for example, anti-Semistism comes from. And Jews have been dealing with that for centuries throughout history.
White society will not own up to the consequences? Really? White people didn't fight a war that ended slavery? White people weren't killed in Mississippi fighting for black civil rights? White people didn't pass the amendments for equal treatment under the law? White people didn't send white national guardsmen to protect black children going to school? White people didn't institute school integration to send black children to better schools? White people didn't set affirmative action policies to give black kids a better chance at a college education? White people didn't set up the poverty programs that poor blacks are three times more likely to be beneficiaries of than other whites? White people didn't create a national holiday for MLK? White people didn't set up organizations like the ACLU and the SPLC that expose hatred and fight for minority rights? White people didn't create the Fair Housing and Equal Employment Opportunity organizations to help end discrimination?
Your claim that white society has done nothing is pure baloney.
You are answering your question and not mine. The question that I asked is very simple. Given that white racism existed for 3 centuries, at least, as an oppressive force to blacks, what problems in the black community can be legitimately linked to it as a cause? I did not ask you about what whites have done and I do not think several decades offsets several centuries.
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Okay, well who actually believes that racism is one of the primary causes for the problems in the black community today, when blacks actually had more stable families, lower crime, and lower unemployment before the civil rights movement than after? To repeat your question, who is that dumb?
I think one has to realize that black Americans were largely Southern and rural prior to the Civil Rights movement. As black Americans became more urban, in the Great Migration north, the large urban centers already had cultures of violence from the history of white gangsters like Al Capone, the Mafia, the Purple Gang and more. Violence tends to be greater, in America, in urban centers than in rural areas, traditionally. So the more blacks shifted from a rural existence to an urban existence, crime rates rose. The massive shift and migration no,rth was an attempt to escape Southern racial oppression and to seek greater opportunities in Northern factories. Drugs then flowed into the black community, in the early 70's, which then exacerbated crime in the black American community. In regards to births to unwed mothers, the rate of increase, since the civil rights movement, is pretty much the same as the rate of increase for white Americans since then. White American births to unwed mothers has risen significantly also.
It has to be understood, first, that AMERICA, is in general moral decay. It is not simply black America that has decayed morally, so has the rest of America. If you listen to many whites, they would have you believe that moral decay in only happening in black America. Black Americans are part and parcel with Americas moral decline. Are there not a lot more white kids shooting up schools or workplaces now than in the 60's? Is there not a much higher percentage of white births to unwed mothers than in the 60's? Is there not more white divorces than in the 60's....so on and so forth? So when people say that blacks behaved better in the 60's, when racism was more virulent, so did whites.....that is an AMERICAN problem and not a BLACK AMERICAN problem The family unit in America and the moral foundation of America was stronger for everyone in the 60's than it is today. That decline has nothing to do with racism....but racism created a baseline of poverty and problems, in the 60's, much greater than the baseline of problems for whites in the 60's.
Poverty increases vulnerability to negative social and economic changes of the general society. Racism, by the 60's, had a established a much higher rate of poverty for black Americans than white Americans, so when waves of negative American cultural and economic changes took place, black Americans were disproportionately impacted. It seems logical to me that racism is at the ROOT of the disproportionate impact. The disproportionate impact of moral impact of Americas social and cultural decline is rooted in the disproportionate impact of racism. The effects of classism are inherently racist because racism makes blacks disproportionate victims of classism.
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Well, this is exactly the accepted position of liberals and the Democrats. Their theory is that the Southern Strategy caused the parties to switch places. The Republicans who spawned Lincoln became racists, and the Democrats who spawned the KKK became civil rights champions.
I am apolitical.....although I do not the racism of politics.
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Your question there is improper because we do in fact give credibility to outside forces being responsible. We just don't give credibility to that outside force being pervasive white oppression of blacks.
Why are not whites impacted in the same way by these non pervasive white oppression forces? If black Americans are being weighed down by non racial forces, in other words, then whites should be equally held down by the unmentioned forces? Right? Why would a non racist force just weigh down blacks and not whites equally?
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No, we will not say that racism is to blame because we aren't racist. It's pretty simple. As you say, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. I am me. I know what my opinions are better than you do. You can shout that I must be racist because I'm conservative all you want, but you aren't me. I don't tell you what your opinions are. You don't get to tell me what mine are. So, knowing that I harbor no ill will towards black people, I therefore know it is false when someone tells me that my racism is to blame for some problem.
You might be YOU...but you are NOT the rest of white people. Why do you state "I am me" then go on to speak for the collective "We". You cannot vouch for the "We" because you are only "You" and don't know the vast majority of the collective "We" any more or better than "I" do. Many people may not be racist but given that they do not deny that racism in others, then they are given aid and comfort to those others who are racist by essentially VOUCHING for them giving them the benefit of the doubt of being just like YOU....when you don't know them and cannot read their mind.
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And by "you" I don't mean specifically the person who wrote the post I'm responding to. I just mean a general "you". I don't want to control womens' bodies, I don't want to destroy the Earth with uncontrolled global warming, I don't want poor people to die in the streets without medical care, I don't want to deny homosexual people the right to marry, I don't want to force people to pray in school, I don't want to hand the keys to the country over to rich corporations, I don't want to keep an arsenal of machineguns in my basement, or any of the other things that liberals tell me that I want to do. I simply want to follow the constitution as it is written and have a balanced budget with reasonable taxation levels. That's what makes me a conservative. Not racism, not sexism, not homophobia, not Islamophobia, not a gun fetish, not religious zealotry.
When did this become a debate about "YOU".
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There you go again, telling people what they believe. It's like Obama's recent press conference where he said Republicans' holy grail is denying people healthcare. You make up something evil about someone else, and then you argue against it. It's pure strawman.
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No, I am averse to the topic of racism because it prevents problems from being solved. It's like trying to put a square peg into a round hole. Since the problems don't come from racism, trying to solve them by ending racism won't work. And since the racism isn't truly there, ending racism won't ever happen. You can't ever succeed in stopping something that isn't started. It's like saying I need to get somewhere but I have too far to walk, so I'm going to ride a unicorn instead. Since unicorns don't exist, I will never get to my destination if I insist the only way to get there is by riding one.
How did America get this far without discussing the issues of racism and its many institutional forms like slavery and Jim Crow? Those issues were solved by not talking about it? Not talking about something is generally an away to AVOID something. People who don't want to deal with a certain problem or to have the problem exposed to light, try to Avoid. People who REALLY want to solve problems TALK ABOUT THEM on the planet I am from.
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I am of course speaking in big picture terms. Racism does exist. Racism does cause problems. But it isn't systemic to modern society. In the 1920s the KKK held parades. Now even saying the "N" word can get you taken to court. In the 1960s it took armed guards to escort black children to school. Now schools have affirmative action where black kids receive preferential consideration for entrance. While there are individual racists out there, there is no societal racism preventing black people from getting an education and going to work.
Systemic is the EXTREME form of racism. That was "Knock you down" racism. Non systemic racism seeks to make it hard "To get up".
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What exists on this forum is individual racists. This forum has no systematic racism. You get the same access, follow the same rules, and have the same freedom of speech on this forum no matter what your skin color is. It's the same in society. There are racists in society, but society isn't racist.
If a forum is owned and moderated by those who are mostly white......I would tend to believe that there is bias towards the "white" opinion. Any system run by humans will be influenced by human bias and hence if some of those humans are racist then its systemic racism.
My answer would be, probably a similar place that, for example, anti-Semistism comes from. And Jews have been dealing with that for centuries throughout history.
Jews do not generally exist in the land of their oppression. They generally migrated away from their oppressors lands or had new lands created for them by their oppressors.
The worst part about this, is the clear and absolute lies the media spins with this story. Most of the main stream dont mention race, and sure as hell dont mention what is on their facebook and twitter accounts. And we all know the only reason they havent is because these guys are black and the victim was white. Yet they lie and keep the truth from their readers/viewers saying it appeared to be nothing but random violence.
Shame on the media and the liberals and the race merchants.
There are way more than these three thugs out there... check the black neighborhoods... whites would not walk down the street in most of them.. especially now. You have got to be kidding.. blacks are afraid in there own neighborhoods and has been like that for years. Thugs rob and kill their own. Blacks tell me about what has been done to them .. they rather live in a white neighborhood and I don't blame them.
I think a lot of crime has to deal with the breakdown of the family. I heard something like 75% of black children are born out of wedlock. They don't have fathers around and the mother often needs two jobs to make ends meet which means she isn't around either.
I do think the Lane case was race motivated, but one story said that these boys were pretty much raising themselves. These boys were thugs and had no guidance from adults.
I see a growing number of whites and hispanics who also think it is perfectly acceptable to have a child out of wedlock. It isn't just a black problem. Our sex saturated culture says that it is no longer acceptable to wait until marriage for sex so we have more kids in all races being born out of wedlock which will create more crime because these kids don't have parents around.
The black shooter was half white and black so he was not black.
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