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Antoinette Tuff, the school employee at McNair Discovery Learning Academy in Atlanta, talked a suicidal gunman (who'd already exchanged fire with police) to put his weapons down and surrender before he could hurt any of the children at the elementary school. Her strength and calm composure under incredible stress is amazing--she handled the situation pretty much like you would a crisis call on a suicide hotline, but she was in the thick of it, knowing that he might kill her at any moment as well. I'm thinking THIS is the kind of training we need to offer school employees to deal with crisis situations--how to DEESCALATE the situation by staying calm, getting the disturbed person to talk about themselves and keep talking, listening and relating to them, and by being reassuring and letting them know you care and you're trying to help them until help can come. If she had pulled out a gun and started firing, there's a pretty good chance she would have been shot and killed herself, and if the gunman hadn't been killed, he could have proceeded through the school killing kids and teachers. It might not work in every situation, but it sure worked in this one. That type of crisis intervention training is something that could EASILY be broadly replicated in schools across the country, for use with both disturbed students and intruders.
Antoinette Tuff, the school employee at McNair Discovery Learning Academy in Atlanta, talked a suicidal gunman (who'd already exchanged fire with police) to put his weapons down and surrender before he could hurt any of the children at the elementary school. Her strength and calm composure under incredible stress is amazing--she handled the situation pretty much like you would a crisis call on a suicide hotline, but she was in the thick of it, knowing that he might kill her at any moment as well. I'm thinking THIS is the kind of training we need to offer school employees to deal with crisis situations--how to DEESCULATE the situation by staying calm, getting the disturbed person to talk about themselves and keep talking, listening and relating to them, and by being reassuring and letting them know you care and you're trying to help them until help can come. If she had pulled out a gun and started firing, there's a pretty good chance she would have been shot and killed herself, and if the gunman hadn't been killed, he could have proceeded through the school killing kids and teachers. It might not work in every situation, but it sure worked in this one. That type of crisis intervention training is something that could EASILY be broadly replicated in schools across the country.
No way. You do NOT want civilians to confront armed lunatics as a matter of policy. This woman was a hero, but she was lucky. It seems like this guy was looking to commit "suicide by cop", not actually shoot any kids.
No way. You do NOT want civilians to confront armed lunatics as a matter of policy. This woman was a hero, but she was lucky. It seems like this guy was looking to commit "suicide by cop", not actually shoot any kids.
If he wanted to commit suicide by cop, he could have purposefully died when he had the first gunfire exchange with police.
Sorry, but you're wrong. You're assuming that they'd have a choice. I'm talking about situations where the person is THERE and you have no choice, which is the most likely situation with a school shooter. We had a similar situation at a small town high school in Nebraska--Malcolm--in 2004. A mentally ill kid had a car full of homemade bombs and a gun, and he was preparing to go into the school to kill just about everyone. He had an elaborate plan, right down to studying where the school would put the kids if they went into lockdown--he was going to go into the school, trigger the lockdown, and then quickly plant the bombs and detonate them in places that would kill the most people. The elementary principal (in the same building) got wind that something was up from a teacher--a friend of the kid told her that he had warned them that something bad was going to happen--and found him at his car. The Principal calmly talked him into going in to the school and waiting in the office for the sheriff. If he would have handled it differently, there would have probably been a school full of dead kids and teachers. Everyone should know how to deescalate a situation with an upset, unstable person, vs. feeding into the frenzy and making it worse.
Mine too. The FBI should consider hiring her as a hostage negotiator. She did an amazing job, and I think she really cared not only about herself and all those precious children, but also about the shooter. And I think that came through to him and he was willing to give himself up.
I loved when she told him she was proud of him for giving himself up.
Mine too. The FBI should consider hiring her as a hostage negotiator. She did an amazing job, and I think she really cared not only about herself and all those precious children, but also about the shooter. And I think that came through to him and he was willing to give himself up.
I loved when she told him she was proud of him for giving himself up.
Exactly--that's a lot of it--letting the person know that someone does care, keeping them talking and listening, letting them know you're trying to help them, and deescalating the situation so you buy time--the shooter has the opportunity to have second thoughts vs. just react, and it gives time for help to come. Knowing how to do that in a standoff type situation could save your life and the life of everyone around you, and training helps it to become second nature.
That said, I don't know that I could have stayed that calm and reassuring, and I'm a calm, warm, no-nonsense older mom (with a capital M). I guess you do what you have to do in a situation like that, because your life, and the life of everyone else, depends on how you handle the situation. Like she said--she gave it up to God--and he guided her through it. She DID care, and it came shining through. It saved her life.
Exactly--that's a lot of it--letting the person know that someone does care, keeping them talking and listening, letting them know you're trying to help them, and buying time so the shooter has the opportunity to have second thoughts vs. just react, and so help can come. Knowing how to do that in a standoff type situation could save your life and the life of everyone around you, and training helps it to become second nature.
That said, I don't know that I could have stayed that calm and reassuring, and I'm a calm, warm, no-nonsense older mom (with a capital M). I guess you do what you have to do in a situation like that, because your life, and the life of everyone else, depends on how you handle the situation. Like she said--she gave it up to God--and he guided her through it. She DID care, and it came shining through.
It would suit everyone better if this type of intervention happens before one goes off the deep end.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaten_Drinker
No way. You do NOT want civilians to confront armed lunatics as a matter of policy. This woman was a hero, but she was lucky. It seems like this guy was looking to commit "suicide by cop", not actually shoot any kids.
Which is of course why we have people calling for armed civilians to confront armed lunatics, eh?
It would suit everyone better if this type of intervention happens before one goes off the deep end.
The article said he told Ms. Tuff that he wasn't taking his meds, and evidently he'd made threats on his family in the past. We have to do a better job of identifying mentally ill people this country, getting them help, and intervening before they go off the deep end.
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell
Which is of course why we have people calling for armed civilians to confront armed lunatics, eh?
Exactly--it's crazy. If someone had started shooting, unless they got him on the first shot (he would have probably started shooting if someone even looked like they were reaching for a gun), there's a pretty good chance he would have moved through the school and killed lots of people--it would have turned into one big shoot-em-up. He had 500 rounds on him. She handled this perfectly, and thank goodness calm heads prevailed.
The article said he told Ms. Tuff that he wasn't taking his meds, and evidently he'd made threats on his family in the past. We have to do a better job of identifying mentally ill people this country, getting them help, and intervening before they go off the deep end.
Problem is the PC police believe you cannot take care of a mentally ill person against their will.
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