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Old 08-25-2013, 10:56 AM
 
29,711 posts, read 37,132,317 times
Reputation: 4713

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
OBL was in involved in that timeframe, and did in fact work closely with the Pakistani leaders who received money directly from US, but of course the US could not have known what his future had in store for us.
  • The CIA official in charge of the U.S. covert operation in support of the Afghan fighters during the late 1980s told us Paul is perpetuating an “urban myth.”
  • The CIA website states unequivocally “that the CIA never employed, paid, or maintained any relationship whatsoever with bin Laden.”
  • In a 1993 interview, bin Laden himself said, “Personally neither I nor my brothers saw evidence of American help.”
Several independent journalists and authors who have extensively researched and written about the CIA’s involvement in the Afghanistan conflict with the Soviets in the 1980s support the CIA’s contention. For example, Peter Bergen, a national security analyst for CNN who interviewed bin Laden in 1997, told us, “There is no evidence that the CIA funded or armed bin Laden or even knew who he was until 1993.”


Rand Paul’s Bin Laden Claim Is ‘Urban Myth’
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Old 08-25-2013, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Florida
73,522 posts, read 40,948,446 times
Reputation: 13601
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
  • The CIA official in charge of the U.S. covert operation in support of the Afghan fighters during the late 1980s told us Paul is perpetuating an “urban myth.”
  • The CIA website states unequivocally “that the CIA never employed, paid, or maintained any relationship whatsoever with bin Laden.”
  • In a 1993 interview, bin Laden himself said, “Personally neither I nor my brothers saw evidence of American help.”
Several independent journalists and authors who have extensively researched and written about the CIA’s involvement in the Afghanistan conflict with the Soviets in the 1980s support the CIA’s contention. For example, Peter Bergen, a national security analyst for CNN who interviewed bin Laden in 1997, told us, “There is no evidence that the CIA funded or armed bin Laden or even knew who he was until 1993.”


Rand Paul’s Bin Laden Claim Is ‘Urban Myth’
I never argued we funded OBL. I said US aid to the mujahadeen at the time had the right intentions, and I said OBL was involved in the war before 1989. Both statements are true. OBL was on the side which received US money, but like I said we had never heard of OBL at the time, and could not have known what he was to become in the future.
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Old 08-25-2013, 11:21 AM
 
29,711 posts, read 37,132,317 times
Reputation: 4713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Actually Volker was nominated by Carter for the task of reducing inflation, and he simply continued his task after Reagan was elected. Which president did you think did not understand what he was trying to do?
Here are the interest rates leading up to the 1980 election and shortly there after:

Quote:
1980-01 13.82
1980-02 14.13
1980-03 17.19
1980-04 17.61
1980-05 10.98
1980-06 9.47
1980-07 9.03
1980-08 9.61
1980-09 10.87
1980-10 12.81
1980-11 15.85
1980-12 18.9
1981-01 19.08
1981-02 15.93
1981-03 14.7
1981-04 15.72
1981-05 18.52
1981-06 19.1
1981-07 19.04
1981-08 17.82
1981-09 15.87
1981-10 15.08
1981-11 13.31
1981-12 12.37
1982-01 13.22
1982-02 14.78
1982-03 14.68
1982-04 14.94
1982-05 14.45
1982-06 14.15
1982-07 12.59
1982-08 10.12
1982-09 10.31
1982-10 9.71
1982-11 9.2
1982-12 8.95
1983-01 8.68
1983-02 8.51
1983-03 8.77
1983-04 8.8
http://www.federalreserve.gov/datado...t=seriescolumn

When Volker and Carter met Volker was sure that he had "blew it" with Crater. We now know, of course, that Carter did nominate Volker but what is little known is that Carter requested Volker to help out a little during the election.

Once Reagan won he election he basically got out of the way of Volker and let him do what he needed to stabilize the dollar. Reagan, having a degree in economics, understood what Volker was trying to do and believed in it enough to take the political heat. At the same time Volker was stabilizing the dollar Reagan was pushing for tax decreases and increases in investments. Those two policies, along with the military build up, thrived off each other.
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Old 08-25-2013, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Florida
73,522 posts, read 40,948,446 times
Reputation: 13601
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
Here are the interest rates leading up to the 1980 election and shortly there after:

http://www.federalreserve.gov/datado...t=seriescolumn

When Volker and Carter met Volker was sure that he had "blew it" with Crater. We now know, of course, that Carter did nominate Volker but what is little known is that Carter requested Volker to help out a little during the election.

Once Reagan won he election he basically got out of the way of Volker and let him do what he needed to stabilize the dollar. Reagan, having a degree in economics, understood what Volker was trying to do and believed in it enough to take the political heat. At the same time Volker was stabilizing the dollar Reagan was pushing for tax decreases and increases in investments. Those two policies, along with the military build up, thrived off each other.
Volker was nominated late in Carter's presidency specifically to fight inflation, and he begun his inflation fighting program immediately, and continued after Reagan became the president. Nothing changed in that regard because Carter didn't get in his way either.
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Old 08-25-2013, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
14,372 posts, read 8,989,242 times
Reputation: 6651
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
In terms of policy, they did just about the same thing.
Reagan and Obama did just about the same thing? Would you make the argument that yellow and green are almost the same color?

Your statement couldn't be further from the truth!
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Old 08-25-2013, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
14,372 posts, read 8,989,242 times
Reputation: 6651
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
  • The CIA official in charge of the U.S. covert operation in support of the Afghan fighters during the late 1980s told us Paul is perpetuating an “urban myth.”
Several independent journalists and authors who have extensively researched and written about the CIA’s involvement in the Afghanistan conflict with the Soviets in the 1980s support the CIA’s contention. For example, Peter Bergen, a national security analyst for CNN who interviewed bin Laden in 1997, told us, “There is no evidence that the CIA funded or armed bin Laden or even knew who he was until 1993.”
Operation Cyclone
Terror 'blowback' burns CIA - News - The Independent

October 1998:
Last week, it was revealed that one of those under arrest is a former Egyptian soldier named Ali Mohamed, who is alleged to have provided training and assistance to Mr bin Laden's operatives. Yet Mr Mohamed, it is clear from his record, was working for the US government at the time he provided the training: he was a Green Beret, part of America's Special Forces.

The CIA's "Operation Cyclone" - Stirring The Hornet's Nest Of Islamic Unrest

2002
Zbigniew Brzezinski not long ago revealed that on July 3, 1979, unknown to the American public and Congress, President Jimmy Carter secretly authorized $500 million to create an international terrorist movement that would spread Islamic fundamentalism in Central Asia and "de-stabilise" the Soviet Union... The CIA called this Operation Cyclone and in the following years poured $4 billion into setting up Islamic training schools in Pakistan (Taliban means "student").

2009



2010
http://digitool.library.colostate.ed...ger?pid=123327

The Spanish mortar, for example, was rarely deployed and may only have succeeded because the Pakistani ISI advisers were along to direct the fire. But the Soviets didn‟t know that. When the weapon was first used it wiped out an entire Spetznas [Incredibly lethal and skilled Soviet Special Forces, akin to American Green Berets] outpost with a volley of perfect strikes. And as soon as Bearden learned from the CIA‟s intercepts that the commander of the 40th Army had helicoptered to the scene, he knew that from that day on, the Soviets would have to factor in the possibility that the mujahideen had acquired some deadly targeting capability. For that reason alone, the weapon was a success even if it never fired again.



The truth is out there.

Paul/Kucinich
2016
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Old 08-25-2013, 03:38 PM
 
29,711 posts, read 37,132,317 times
Reputation: 4713
Quote:
Originally Posted by steven_h View Post
Operation Cyclone
Terror 'blowback' burns CIA - News - The Independent

October 1998:
Last week, it was revealed that one of those under arrest is a former Egyptian soldier named Ali Mohamed, who is alleged to have provided training and assistance to Mr bin Laden's operatives. Yet Mr Mohamed, it is clear from his record, was working for the US government at the time he provided the training: he was a Green Beret, part of America's Special Forces.

The CIA's "Operation Cyclone" - Stirring The Hornet's Nest Of Islamic Unrest

2002
Zbigniew Brzezinski not long ago revealed that on July 3, 1979, unknown to the American public and Congress, President Jimmy Carter secretly authorized $500 million to create an international terrorist movement that would spread Islamic fundamentalism in Central Asia and "de-stabilise" the Soviet Union... The CIA called this Operation Cyclone and in the following years poured $4 billion into setting up Islamic training schools in Pakistan (Taliban means "student").

2009



2010
http://digitool.library.colostate.ed...ger?pid=123327

The Spanish mortar, for example, was rarely deployed and may only have succeeded because the Pakistani ISI advisers were along to direct the fire. But the Soviets didn‟t know that. When the weapon was first used it wiped out an entire Spetznas [Incredibly lethal and skilled Soviet Special Forces, akin to American Green Berets] outpost with a volley of perfect strikes. And as soon as Bearden learned from the CIA‟s intercepts that the commander of the 40th Army had helicoptered to the scene, he knew that from that day on, the Soviets would have to factor in the possibility that the mujahideen had acquired some deadly targeting capability. For that reason alone, the weapon was a success even if it never fired again.



The truth is out there.

Paul/Kucinich
2016
None of that proves the the C.I.A. funded Bin Laden in any way. The Factcheck.org link I previously provided names all the names and provides all the links.
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Old 08-25-2013, 03:45 PM
 
29,711 posts, read 37,132,317 times
Reputation: 4713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Volker was nominated late in Carter's presidency specifically to fight inflation, and he begun his inflation fighting program immediately, and continued after Reagan became the president. Nothing changed in that regard because Carter didn't get in his way either.
The proof is in the historical interest rates I provided. The interest rates were almost cut in half as the 1980 election drew closer. One it was clear Carter was not going to win interest rates increased back to earlier 1980 levels and increased even more as Reagan was taking office. There was no change from early 1980 to early 1982 in the economic conditions yet right around the 1980 elections interest rates dropped rather dramatically.

The data is there. Trying to say that didn't happen make no sense.
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Old 08-25-2013, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Florida
73,522 posts, read 40,948,446 times
Reputation: 13601
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
The proof is in the historical interest rates I provided. The interest rates were almost cut in half as the 1980 election drew closer. One it was clear Carter was not going to win interest rates increased back to earlier 1980 levels and increased even more as Reagan was taking office. There was no change from early 1980 to early 1982 in the economic conditions yet right around the 1980 elections interest rates dropped rather dramatically.

The data is there. Trying to say that didn't happen make no sense.
Proof of what? What didn't happen? Yes, the data proves my point. Carter didn't cut the rates neither did Reagan. Volcker did it by floating the rates, and while it is true they fluctuated at first it is also true that the long term effect of Volcker approach fixed the problem. Perhaps I am not seeing what you are trying to say. Could you clarify your point?

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 08-25-2013 at 04:44 PM..
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Old 08-25-2013, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
23,689 posts, read 30,198,831 times
Reputation: 7232
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
It isn't clear about Kennedy, since so many things were happening at the same time to attribute more revenue to tax-cuts -- which the top rates fell from 90% to 70%.

They did not grow after Bush's tax-cuts. That's well documented. I addressed it here: //www.city-data.com/forum/19033258-post44.html
Sigh...

After the Bush tax cuts in 2001 and 2003, government revenue grew by $785 billion for 2004-2007, the largest 4-year increase in history. And, no, not all of it was due to other reasons.

Again, when taxes are cut, government revenue increases.
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