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As I read it, the article isn't condemning our health system, rather pointing out that we are unhealthy. That isn't really surprising, we lead very sedentary lives, have a more diverse population, are more violent, have more teen pregnancies, and have high obesity rates.
In order to perform a real comparison between the USA and other countries you need to control for payor status (medicaid patients have higher mortality rates than the uninsured), socioeconomic level, disease, sex, race, etc and then look at survival and mortality rates.
You can have the best or worst healthcare system in the world, but your life expectancy won't have anything to do with healthcare until you come into contact with the system. EX: getting shot or dying in an auto accident doesn't really have anything to do with the quality of the healthcare system.
Asian American women have the highest lifespan in the world
As I read it, the article isn't condemning our health system, rather pointing out that we are unhealthy. That isn't really surprising, we lead very sedentary lives, have a more diverse population, are more violent, have more teen pregnancies, and have high obesity rates.
In order to perform a real comparison between the USA and other countries you need to control for payor status (medicaid patients have higher mortality rates than the uninsured), socioeconomic level, disease, sex, race, etc and then look at survival and mortality rates.
You can have the best or worst healthcare system in the world, but your life expectancy won't have anything to do with healthcare until you come into contact with the system. EX: getting shot or dying in an auto accident doesn't really have anything to do with the quality of the healthcare system.
Asian American women have the highest lifespan in the world
Nah, it is critical of our health care system. You read what you want to read. The study is very clear that lack of healthcare insurance is a big factor.
Nah, it is critical of our health care system. You read what you want to read. The study is very clear that lack of healthcare insurance is a big factor.
We are more violent and sicker to begin with. Health insurance doesn't stop you from getting shot in a drive by shooting, shooting up a liquor store, eating fast food, not exercising, getting cancer, or using drugs.
It's right here:
"As individuals, the study found, "Americans are less likely to smoke and may drink less heavily than their counterparts in peer countries, but they consume the most calories per capita, abuse more prescription and illicit drugs, are less likely to fasten seatbelts, have more traffic accidents involving alcohol, and own more firearms." Yet even fit, nonsmoking Americans have higher disease rates than those elsewhere, the report said."
We are more violent and sicker to begin with. Health insurance doesn't stop you from getting shot in a drive by shooting, shooting up a liquor store, eating fast food, not exercising, getting cancer, or using drugs.
It's right here:
"As individuals, the study found, "Americans are less likely to smoke and may drink less heavily than their counterparts in peer countries, but they consume the most calories per capita, abuse more prescription and illicit drugs, are less likely to fasten seatbelts, have more traffic accidents involving alcohol, and own more firearms." Yet even fit, nonsmoking Americans have higher disease rates than those elsewhere, the report said."
Again, I know what was in the article. I posted it. DID you read the last sentence in the paragraph? Even fit nonsmoking Americans have higher disease rates than those elsewhere?
The authors of the study made it very clear that lack of healthcare/insurance is a big factor in this nation's higher mortality rates. Now why you are ignoring that is very disappointing, but not surprising.
Again, I know what was in the article. I posted it. DID you read the last sentence in the paragraph? Even fit nonsmoking Americans have higher disease rates than those elsewhere?
The authors of the study made it very clear that lack of healthcare/insurance is a big factor in this nation's higher mortality rates. Now why you are ignoring that is very disappointing, but not surprising.
Yes, disease rates. The disease rate has nothing to do with the healthcare system. Black men have the highest rates of prostate cancer, but America has the best 5 yr survival odds for prostate cancer, so the rate has nothing to do with the healthcare system. The best healthcare system in the world doesn't stop a teen from getting pregnant and doesn't force her to get an abortion. The best healthcare system in the world doesn't stop someone from joining a gang or eating fast food.
Medicaid patients have insurance, but have higher mortality rates once you control for age, sex, income, region, and operation.
As I posted earlier, Asian American women have the longest life expectancy in the world - 3 years longer than Japanese women. If you just look at men, the gap between different groups is 16-17 years.
Yes, disease rates. The disease rate has nothing to do with the healthcare system. Black men have the highest rates of prostate cancer, but America has the best 5 yr survival odds for prostate cancer, so the rate has nothing to do with the healthcare system. The best healthcare system in the world doesn't stop a teen from getting pregnant and doesn't force her to get an abortion. The best healthcare system in the world doesn't stop someone from joining a gang or eating fast food.
Medicaid patients have insurance, but have higher mortality rates once you control for age, sex, income, region, and operation.
As I posted earlier, Asian American women have the longest life expectancy in the world - 3 years longer than Japanese women. If you just look at men, the gap between different groups is 16-17 years.
If you find a study that controls for payer status, sex, race, socioeconomic level, disease, and then compares mortality rates let me know.
So fit nonsmoking Americans having a higher rate of disease has nothing to do with our healthcare system?
You really believe that? LOLOLOLOL
So rates of disease have nothing to do with access to healthcare/insurance? Its all just genetics? LOLOLOLOLOL
The denial is so deep that reality is irrelevant. This is why problems cannot be dealt with because ideology causes people to believe completely moronic things that don't make a bit of sense. SMH.
The lack of dealing with reality and fact free nature of conservatism is always shocking. I don't know how you proceed to have a discussion about any public policy if factual information isn't the foundation of the discussion.
With conservatives, factual information is to be ignored and this fantasy approach is embraced.
As a nation we should be able to address problems without conservatives attacking this group or that group.
I would love to have a discussion about public policy regarding the poor, but conservatives don't want that discussion. They just want to say poor people are immoral, lazy, criminal, dumb, etc. So every point they make is based on proving that just how corrupt poor people are collectively and how they don't deserve government help.
They do this type of stuff on every policy.
Tax policy isn't a discussion about hey how do we as Americans pay for things we want government to do without stifling the economy.
Instead every tax debate is one based on faith in lower taxes for rich people as always the answer. You can't have a debate because they believe in something with a religious fervor.
And over and over again on issue after issue, you find conservatives unmoved by factual reality.
We can't have a discussion on healthcare and the fact that we spend more than any other nation have terrible health outcomes and fail to insure millions of our citizens.
The lack of health insurance KILLS people. Yet you cannot have a factual discussion with conservatives that in the known world other nations provide cheaper healthcare, cover all their citizens, and have better healthcare outcomes. This reality is ignored for focusing on fairytale stuff. Heck, it doesn't even mean we should completely do what they do, but an acknowledgment of reality would be nice.
This is such a wonderful post and I would rep you again if I could. You hit the nail on the head.
The Forbes article you linked considers teachers, civil engineers, park rangers, bus drivers, and firefighters to be "takers."
You guys are insane.
You notice how steve keeps posting crap like that yet wonders why no one believes him when he falsely claims maps like his "death spiral state" are in any way accurate? Even factcheck agrees that "article" is utter rubbish especially when it calls all public employees takers.
The lack of dealing with reality and fact free nature of conservatism is always shocking. I don't know how you proceed to have a discussion about any public policy if factual information isn't the foundation of the discussion.
With conservatives, factual information is to be ignored and this fantasy approach is embraced.
As a nation we should be able to address problems without conservatives attacking this group or that group.
I would love to have a discussion about public policy regarding the poor, but conservatives don't want that discussion. They just want to say poor people are immoral, lazy, criminal, dumb, etc. So every point they make is based on proving that just how corrupt poor people are collectively and how they don't deserve government help.
They do this type of stuff on every policy.
Tax policy isn't a discussion about hey how do we as Americans pay for things we want government to do without stifling the economy.
Instead every tax debate is one based on faith in lower taxes for rich people as always the answer. You can't have a debate because they believe in something with a religious fervor.
And over and over again on issue after issue, you find conservatives unmoved by factual reality.
We can't have a discussion on healthcare and the fact that we spend more than any other nation have terrible health outcomes and fail to insure millions of our citizens.
The lack of health insurance KILLS people. Yet you cannot have a factual discussion with conservatives that in the known world other nations provide cheaper healthcare, cover all their citizens, and have better healthcare outcomes. This reality is ignored for focusing on fairytale stuff. Heck, it doesn't even mean we should completely do what they do, but an acknowledgment of reality would be nice.
Unfortunately, like many others, you confuse conservatives with Republicans. While most Republicans consider themselves conservative, not all conservatives are Republican. In fact, many are quite thoughtful and moderate but are still considered conservatives by the Democrats for the sole reason that they're not liberal or, as many like to call themselves, "progressive." The bulk of them are actually independents (note the small "i").
There's really no sense in taking-on hard-core members of either major party. They're all ideologues and they all cleave to their respective party lines. Neither party produces members capable of independent analysis and critical thought, nor do they want to. To do so would topple their houses of cards. But despite this, here on C-D the party promoters and name-callers continue their redundant attempts to minimize one another which is equally as immature, senseless and divisive as the rhetoric spewing forth from the party "leaders." How any thinking human being can admire, much less follow the dictates of such people is beyond me. It makes us look laughable, weak and indecisive on the world stage. Personally, I find it reprehensible and infuriating.
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