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Old 11-15-2007, 01:59 PM
 
13,648 posts, read 20,766,078 times
Reputation: 7650

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Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
To be fair, Iran was certainly considered an enemy of the US at the time, I never saw acts of treason (and arming an enemy certainly qualifies as such) ranked according to how good the intent may have been. And I seem to recall many denials of arms for hostages And not being able to remember such actions? Give me a break!

Carter certainly fell short in many respects but at least caused relativelty little harm compared to a number of others.
Why are you hollering at me? I said I agreed with you on the subject of Arms for Hostages. Stand down red alert.

As for Carter himself, the voters obviously disagreed with you (and actually me at the time).

 
Old 11-15-2007, 02:21 PM
 
Location: The best country in the world: the USA
1,499 posts, read 4,830,748 times
Reputation: 737
Thumbs down Jimmy Carter = THE worst president in US History.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishmonger View Post
so much? If you're a right-wing Jimmy Carter hater, what is it about the man, his presidency, or Habitat for Humanity that makes your blood boil into a seething cauldron of raw malevolence? Why do you, in all likelihood, consider him to be "history's worst president?"
Maybe because under Jimmy Carter, the US almost entered WWIII thanks to his horrendous foreign policies. That is, of course, without mentioning that under Carter we had Americans who were held captive under current Iranian dictator "good ole' " Mahmoud! Carter did NOTHING to rescue the Americans who were under Iranian control for over for over a year. This was the begining of Islamic attacks on Americans, as the Islamists realized "hey, these Americans are all cowards".

Under Jimmy Carter the US economy slipped into serious recession and stayed there the whole time. Carter created tax policies with the Democratic Congress that bankrupted US companies and triggered many companies to go overseas to avoid taxes, taking with it all these jobs. Jimmy Carter was leading the US into becoming a 3rd world country.

Under Carter the Soviet Union grew bolder and only would fall when Ronald Reagan took office and defeated him in 1980.

Under Carter's administration, there was ZERO drug enforcement. We have a whole generation of kids who became drug addicts and complete losers under him. Reagan saved the next generation by educating kids that drugs are bad and to enforce drug laws vigorously.

Jimmy Carter caused gas shortages and the US economy to hit rock bottom. Crime was out of control in the 1970s. Carter continued the Lyndon B. Johnson tradition of a “Welfare state”(did you all know Social Security is now bankrupt because Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson STOLE money from the fund to create the ghettos in NY, Boston, LA, etc under their “War on poverty” scheme?).
This is not to mention how Carter EMBARRASSED the USA by going to Cuba and giving anti-American speeches “en Espanol”. And he continues to go around the world saying how much America is evil, and how everyone should hate us because we are responsible for every bad thing that happens in the world.

Jimmy Carter is probably the worst President in US history. I think he might even be worse than President Grant… but I know, the hard lefties will say “NO! Bush is the worst!”, but that is only because you hate the Iraq war. Take Iraq out of the equation and Bush did a pretty good job, including saving the economy from the Clinton-inherited recession (made worse by 9/11, yes, but Bush already inherited the recession from Bill). It was the TAX CUTS (something Carter hates) that fueled this massive economic growth.

In sum, Carter is without any doubt the worst President in US history and the most anti-American. If you guys want another Jimmy Carter in the White House, all we need to do is elect his anti-American, black version: Barack Obama.
 
Old 11-15-2007, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,169 posts, read 24,319,017 times
Reputation: 15291
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
Well, at least you said 'witnessed' rather than 'was responsible for', you got at least one right.

Brought down the wall? Single handedly? Was that him I saw with the pick-axe in hand? I believe the wall was brought down more by its own overwhelming weight than by the actions of any individual.

Like many Americans, people are often willing to take style over substance. Carter may not rank among the best but if he was accorded the false credits others are due to playing the role better he'd surely rank higher than the facts merit, as does his successor.
Feel to put whatever words into my mouth that you wish, if that makes you feel better. It does not, however, alter the historical facts one iota. Carter was a failure, who established the legacy of impotence which infects the Democrat party to this day. Reagan, for all his faults, unified the country and made us respected around the world. It is not his fault that the GOP has squandered his legacy.

I hasten to add, by the way, that I do not "hate" President Carter; he cannot help being who he is. Unlike my left-wing friends, hatred for our presidents does not motivate me.
 
Old 11-15-2007, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Your mind
2,935 posts, read 4,998,177 times
Reputation: 604
Quote:
Yeledaf: No, I'm describing replacing democratically-elected tyrants with democratically-elected non-tyrants.
But you at least acknowledge that those instances have generally only made up a portion of the total number of "replacements," right?
 
Old 11-15-2007, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,169 posts, read 24,319,017 times
Reputation: 15291
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishmonger View Post
But you at least acknowledge that those instances have generally only made up a portion of the total number of "replacements," right?
Right. Foreign policy is an inexact science.

Hindsight, however, is unerringly accurate. You demonstrate that very well.
 
Old 11-16-2007, 08:39 AM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,326 posts, read 54,344,425 times
Reputation: 40721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
Feel to put whatever words into my mouth that you wish, if that makes you feel better. It does not, however, alter the historical facts one iota. Carter was a failure, who established the legacy of impotence which infects the Democrat party to this day. Reagan, for all his faults, unified the country and made us respected around the world. It is not his fault that the GOP has squandered his legacy.

I hasten to add, by the way, that I do not "hate" President Carter; he cannot help being who he is. Unlike my left-wing friends, hatred for our presidents does not motivate me.

You wrote "His successor brought down the Wall and witnessed the liberation of Eastern Europe.", exactly where have I attributed any words to you that didn't come from you?
 
Old 11-16-2007, 08:48 AM
 
13,648 posts, read 20,766,078 times
Reputation: 7650
"Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall"
 
Old 11-16-2007, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,169 posts, read 24,319,017 times
Reputation: 15291
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
You wrote "His successor brought down the Wall and witnessed the liberation of Eastern Europe.", exactly where have I attributed any words to you that didn't come from you?
"Single-handedly", as in "Brought down the wall? Single handedly? Was that him I saw with the pick-axe in hand? I believe the wall was brought down more by its own overwhelming weight than by the actions of any individual." I am gratified to know what you believe. Please consider the fact that many people believe otherwise.

You and fish have a way of trying to make me sound more extreme than I already am. I suppose that is useful to whip up your own sense of outrage, but it makes very little impression on me or on those who acutally read my posts.
 
Old 11-16-2007, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Your mind
2,935 posts, read 4,998,177 times
Reputation: 604
Was it Reagan or was it Gorbachev's reforms + political unrest? Probably both. Reagan was sort of dovey towards the USSR in his second term.
 
Old 11-16-2007, 11:22 AM
 
13,648 posts, read 20,766,078 times
Reputation: 7650
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishmonger View Post
Was it Reagan or was it Gorbachev's reforms + political unrest? Probably both. Reagan was sort of dovey towards the USSR in his second term.
Reagan was dovey because he had the newly arrived Gorby to deal with rather than the standard, mumified, hard line leader. Should he be criticised for flexibility and adaptability?

The Cold War was a 50 year effort. You cannot credit one President although Reagan certainly gets his fair share. If, and I emphasize "if", you were to credit one President, it would be Harry Truman who, along with Dean Acheson and George Marshall, created the foundation (NATO, the Marshall Plan) and strategies that eventually slowly lead to the defeat of the USSR.
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