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Old 08-25-2013, 02:58 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,035,628 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
Chess is easy as it has very few variables. That is not the same as an actual computer intelligence.
That's point I was trying to make becsue I was making a comparison, Deep Blue was pure computational power. I'm comparing it to Watson, while computational power plays a role with Watson it's not the computational power that is solving the problem. In addition to that Watson learns, if it makes a mistake it doesn't file away the correct answer. It changes it's behavior to arrive at the correct answer.


Quote:
This reminds me of everyone in the 1950s believing that in the year 2013, we would have flying, nuclear powered cars and cities on the moon...
Yet there is fantastic predictions that have come true and things that were not even imagined. If you told someone using a mechanical adding machine 50 years ago there would be machine the size of pin head that could perform their job at billions of times per second they would have told you that were nuts. Technology marches on, the question is not if something will replace silicon based chips but when.
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Old 08-25-2013, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,721,445 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
Ah, Luddite laws were never tried, at any point in history.

I'm not saying anyone get rid of existing technology, but just limit certain ones to prevent widespread unemployment.

Any nation that has Luddite laws will do a large part to prevent widespread technology unemployment, and by doing so they will have a much larger consumer base than a nation that doesn't. Considering that consumer spending is 2/3 the economic activity, how is ensuring the consumer always has jobs to spend money on anything but good?

As for global competition, that can be held off by tariffs on manufactured goods and services.

All this beats the alternative of throwing are hands up and saying "fine! we will just all look like that movie Elysium, no big deal"
The purpose of technology is to eliminate jobs..

Luddite law would make a nation uncompetitive in the global marketplace. No one is going to pay a premium for goods made in the least productive nation on earth.

People living in a nation under Luddite Law would all be employed and would pay multiples for everything they consumed. There would be no discretionary income at the end of the day
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Old 08-25-2013, 04:09 PM
 
20,948 posts, read 19,046,327 times
Reputation: 10270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
Ok. Doing less work for more money is something we've been doing for a long time. Automation has already provided you and I with more free time then our parents and grand parents have.

So new robots will be produced that continue that trend. Less work during your 8 hours, but more pay. And when younger generations say how tough things are at work, we will laugh because they won't understand how it was before.

Thats not communism. Henry Ford payed his workers enough money to buy his product. Thats capitalism
That's BS.

Here's the truth.....BTW, it's ALWAYS out there for those who care.

The $5-a-day rate was about half pay and half bonus. The bonus came with character requirements and was enforced by the Socialization Organization. This was a committee that would visit the employees’ homes to ensure that they were doing things the “American way.” They were supposed to avoid social ills such as gambling and drinking. They were to learn English, and many (primarily the recent immigrants) had to attend classes to become “Americanized.” Women were not eligible for the bonus unless they were single and supporting the family. Also, men were not eligible if their wives worked outside the home.
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Old 08-25-2013, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,721,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goinback2011 View Post
No one is talking about this and it's the biggest influence on our economy. The acceleration of automation has just kept building since around 1994. It's relentless and is affecting most workers in America. Do you hear any pols discussing this and what lies ahead on the automation front? Crickets......

That means you're the mark.
We are in uncharted waters in a global marketplace.

Pols and parties have no answers. I have no answers. How about you?
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Old 08-25-2013, 04:21 PM
 
20,948 posts, read 19,046,327 times
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I have an answer.....the larger the populace, the more opportunity for innovators and entrepreneurs.

People who sit around waiting for that phone to ring simply don't understand that.

There will always be a huge need for human labor.

For instance.....most of the carriage companies went out of business when the automobile became popular. The Fisher Brothers innovated and began building automobile bodies.

Remember the "Body by Fisher" emblem on GM door sill plates until the mid-1990s?
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Old 08-25-2013, 04:30 PM
 
11,086 posts, read 8,541,876 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
We are in uncharted waters in a global marketplace.

Pols and parties have no answers. I have no answers. How about you?
Sure....my answer is start having a discussion about the diminishing availability of work for even the highly skilled in the future and what kind of system would better allocate the work available. Rather than having 20 people working 70-80 hour weeks who then pay taxes to support half that number of of a**-sitters and bon-bon eaters, how about a different distribution?

The current system can't last.
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Old 08-25-2013, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,721,445 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
That's BS.

Here's the truth.....BTW, it's ALWAYS out there for those who care.

The $5-a-day rate was about half pay and half bonus. The bonus came with character requirements and was enforced by the Socialization Organization. This was a committee that would visit the employees’ homes to ensure that they were doing things the “American way.” They were supposed to avoid social ills such as gambling and drinking. They were to learn English, and many (primarily the recent immigrants) had to attend classes to become “Americanized.” Women were not eligible for the bonus unless they were single and supporting the family. Also, men were not eligible if their wives worked outside the home.
DNR - The Assembly Line and the $5 Day - Background Reading

The United Automobile Workers (UAW) and Ford Motor Company: Working ... - Press Release
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Old 08-25-2013, 04:52 PM
 
11,768 posts, read 10,259,799 times
Reputation: 3444
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
We are in uncharted waters in a global marketplace.

Pols and parties have no answers. I have no answers. How about you?
The truth is that not every industry is subject to global competition. Foreigners are ineligible for some positions. Ex: IT programming can be done anywhere there is internet access, but if you want to defend someone in court you need to be licensed by the state bar. If you want to sign off on corporate financials you need a CPA license. Pharmacists, Dr's, realtors, and many other professions are the same way.

To make matters worse the USA doesn't have much of a safety net and doesn't provide retraining for displaced workers.

The bright side is that some positions actually pay more in developing countries and salaries are rising by about 10% a year.
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Old 08-25-2013, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,721,445 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
I have an answer.....the larger the populace, the more opportunity for innovators and entrepreneurs.

People who sit around waiting for that phone to ring simply don't understand that.

There will always be a huge need for human labor.

For instance.....most of the carriage companies went out of business when the automobile became popular. The Fisher Brothers innovated and began building automobile bodies.

Remember the "Body by Fisher" emblem on GM door sill plates until the mid-1990s?
It's all about innovation.
Any seasoned venture capitalist knows they will not win them all and the duds usually trend spectacular.
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Old 08-25-2013, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,020 posts, read 14,196,312 times
Reputation: 16745
Grousing about “Automation cuts our jobs” is more barking up the wrong tree. The REAL PROBLEM is that we’re all trapped into using “government approved” money tokens that can only be acquired by trading our property (ex: labor), charity or predation (ex: usury).

Stop and think - instead of automation boosting prosperity (doing more with less labor), it has a negative effect on laborers. It also concentrates wealth in the hands of those who own and/or control the means of production while reducing the ability to buy that production. And if you think harder, “what” is the real problem when there is unmet demand (people in need), surplus labor (unemployed) and available production facilities (closed factories)?

Money. Or in this case, “money madness.”

Why can’t laborers issue their own medium of exchange, to trade with, so others can hire them?
Why can’t producers issue their own medium of exchange, to trade with, so others can buy that which they produce?

There is no law prohibiting the issuance of private promissory notes (i.e., “coupons”) denominated in goods and services. Productive people and enterprises can use their notes / coupons in trade, ending the monopoly of “official money” and its scarcity. You can’t inflate, deflate or speculate on such notes. Their face value is unchanged. And you can’t charge usury, nor be taxed for their use, for it is not a government privilege to use private mediums of exchange. The more goods and services enter the marketplace, the more “local money” is infused into the marketplace with which to “buy” that production.

And once communities start their economic engines, prosperity is unleashed.

SUMMARY:
Only producers should have the power to make the medium of exchange used to buy what they produce. Do not let any parasite, like government or banking, get in control of the medium of exchange.
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