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Nope, just want the record straight on all the big players, regardless of party.
Really? You missed JFK. This is from Wikipedia..........
John F. Kennedy's escalation and Americanization, 1960–1963
Main article: Strategic Hamlet Program
When John F. Kennedy won the 1960 U.S. presidential election, one major issue Kennedy raised was whether the Soviet space and missile programs had surpassed those of the U.S. As Kennedy took over, despite warnings from Eisenhower about Laos and Vietnam, Europe and Latin America "loomed larger than Asia on his sights."[49] In his inaugural address, Kennedy made the ambitious pledge to "pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and success of liberty."[50]
In June 1961, John F. Kennedy bitterly disagreed with Soviet premier Nikita Khrushchev when they met in Vienna over key U.S.-Soviet issues. Cold war strategists concluded Southeast Asia would be one of the testing ground where Soviet forces would test the USA's containment policy - begun during the Truman Administration and solidified by the stalemate resulting from the Korean War.
Although Kennedy stressed long-range missile parity with the Soviets, he was also interested in using special forces for counterinsurgency warfare in Third World countries threatened by communist insurgencies. Originally intended for use behind front lines after a conventional invasion of Europe, Kennedy believed that the guerrilla tactics employed by special forces such as the Green Berets would be effective in a "brush fire" war in Vietnam. He saw British success in using such forces in Malaya as a strategic template.
The Kennedy administration remained essentially committed to the Cold War foreign policy inherited from the Truman and Eisenhower administrations. In 1961, Kennedy faced a three-part crisis - the failure of the Bay of Pigs invasion, the construction of the Berlin Wall, and a negotiated settlement between the pro-Western government of Laos and the Pathet Lao communist movement[51] - made Kennedy believe another failure on the part of the United States to gain control and stop communist expansion would fatally damage U.S. credibility with its allies and his own reputation. Kennedy determined to 'draw a line in the sand' and prevent a communist victory in Vietnam saying, "Now we have a problem making our power credible and Vietnam looks like the place" to James Reston of the New York Times (immediately after meeting Khrushchev in Vienna). [52] [53]
In May 1961, Vice-President Lyndon B. Johnson visited Saigon and enthusiastically declared Diem the "Winston Churchill of Asia."[54] Asked why he had made the comment, Johnson replied, "Diem's the only boy we got out there."[40] Johnson assured Diem of more aid, in order to mold a fighting force that could resist the communists.
Kennedy's policy towards South Vietnam rested on the assumption that Diem and his forces must ultimately defeat the guerrillas on their own. He was against the deployment of American combat troops and observed that "to introduce U.S. forces in large numbers there today, while it might have an initially favorable military impact, would almost certainly lead to adverse political and, in the long run, adverse military consequences."[55]
South Vietnam, Military Regions, 1967.The quality of the South Vietnamese military, however, remained poor. Bad leadership, corruption and political interference all played a part in emasculating the Army of the Republic of Vietnam (ARVN). The frequency of guerrilla attacks rose, as the insurgency gathered steam. Hanoi's support for the NLF played a significant role. But South Vietnamese governmental incompetence was at the core of the crisis.[56] Maxwell Taylor and Walt Rostow recommended that U.S. troops be sent to South Vietnam disguised as flood relief workers. Kennedy rejected the idea but increased military assistance yet again. In April 1962, John Kenneth Galbraith warned Kennedy of the "danger we shall replace the French as a colonial force in the area and bleed as the French did."[57] By mid-1962, the number of U.S. military advisers in South Vietnam had risen from 700 to 12,000.
Nope, I didn't miss JKF, you didn't read what I said carefully, I said from Ike to Nixon.
As I recall JFK falls between those two nicely, and I wasn't even old enough to vote for him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf
Really? You missed JFK. This is from Wikipedia..........
John F. Kennedy's escalation and Americanization, 1960–1963
Main article: Strategic Hamlet Program
When John F. Kennedy won the 1960 U.S. presidential election, one major issue Kennedy raised was whether the Soviet space and missile programs had surpassed those of the U.S. As Kennedy took over, despite warnings from Eisenhower about Laos and Vietnam, Europe and Latin America "loomed larger than Asia on his sights."[49] In his inaugural address, Kennedy made the ambitious pledge to "pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and success of liberty."[50]
In June 1961, John F. Kennedy bitterly disagreed with Soviet premier Nikita Khrushchev when they met in Vienna over key U.S.-Soviet issues. Cold war strategists concluded Southeast Asia would be one of the testing ground where Soviet forces would test the USA's containment policy - begun during the Truman Administration and solidified by the stalemate resulting from the Korean War.
Although Kennedy stressed long-range missile parity with the Soviets, he was also interested in using special forces for counterinsurgency warfare in Third World countries threatened by communist insurgencies. Originally intended for use behind front lines after a conventional invasion of Europe, Kennedy believed that the guerrilla tactics employed by special forces such as the Green Berets would be effective in a "brush fire" war in Vietnam. He saw British success in using such forces in Malaya as a strategic template.
The Kennedy administration remained essentially committed to the Cold War foreign policy inherited from the Truman and Eisenhower administrations. In 1961, Kennedy faced a three-part crisis - the failure of the Bay of Pigs invasion, the construction of the Berlin Wall, and a negotiated settlement between the pro-Western government of Laos and the Pathet Lao communist movement[51] - made Kennedy believe another failure on the part of the United States to gain control and stop communist expansion would fatally damage U.S. credibility with its allies and his own reputation. Kennedy determined to 'draw a line in the sand' and prevent a communist victory in Vietnam saying, "Now we have a problem making our power credible and Vietnam looks like the place" to James Reston of the New York Times (immediately after meeting Khrushchev in Vienna). [52] [53]
In May 1961, Vice-President Lyndon B. Johnson visited Saigon and enthusiastically declared Diem the "Winston Churchill of Asia."[54] Asked why he had made the comment, Johnson replied, "Diem's the only boy we got out there."[40] Johnson assured Diem of more aid, in order to mold a fighting force that could resist the communists.
Kennedy's policy towards South Vietnam rested on the assumption that Diem and his forces must ultimately defeat the guerrillas on their own. He was against the deployment of American combat troops and observed that "to introduce U.S. forces in large numbers there today, while it might have an initially favorable military impact, would almost certainly lead to adverse political and, in the long run, adverse military consequences."[55]
South Vietnam, Military Regions, 1967.The quality of the South Vietnamese military, however, remained poor. Bad leadership, corruption and political interference all played a part in emasculating the Army of the Republic of Vietnam (ARVN). The frequency of guerrilla attacks rose, as the insurgency gathered steam. Hanoi's support for the NLF played a significant role. But South Vietnamese governmental incompetence was at the core of the crisis.[56] Maxwell Taylor and Walt Rostow recommended that U.S. troops be sent to South Vietnam disguised as flood relief workers. Kennedy rejected the idea but increased military assistance yet again. In April 1962, John Kenneth Galbraith warned Kennedy of the "danger we shall replace the French as a colonial force in the area and bleed as the French did."[57] By mid-1962, the number of U.S. military advisers in South Vietnam had risen from 700 to 12,000.
Nope, I didn't miss JKF, you didn't read what I said carefully, I said from Ike to Nixon.
As I recall JFK falls between those two nicely, and I wasn't even old enough to vote for him.
Yes, you mentioned only GOP Presidents, and then questioned "putting the responsiblity on LBJ", even though you and I both know that Vietnam was his war.
I just wanted to remind you of JFK's previous escalation, from 500 to 12,000.
You really can't argue and win every discussion: from means, including, not exempting. All the presidents from Ike to Nixon were involved in some ways in the 'Nam war!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf
Yes, you mentioned only GOP Presidents, and then questioned "putting the responsiblity on LBJ", even though you and I both know that Vietnam was his war.
I just wanted to remind you of JFK's previous escalation, from 500 to 12,000.
lots of fingers pointing many directions but at some point the restaurant is guna close and the waiter and owner are guna come over with the bill.
this is what happened in france. thats why they are now po folk. meaning this is how great big countries become little bitty countries, debt.
lets all think bout next election please.
You know.. I read the title and came up with a funny and sarcastic answer:
Quote:
By exploitation of the poor and middle class with higher taxes with deductions that apply only to those people "smart" enough to make investments and purchase/own a house or houses.
And, we increase minimum wage so that we have more money to tax, but leave all requirements for aid the same - so that many people who once qualified for medical assistance programs, food stamps, WIC, and other programs do not get federal/state money. As the cost of labor increases, the prices on goods increase.. which equals even more money collected in taxes. Then we take that extra money from the Social Services, and Income Tax increases to funnel under the blanket over to the Department of Defense.
Meanwhile, do to inflation, even E-3's are making about as much as a part-time pregnant lazy bum working at either a fast food restaurant or Wal-Mart.
Then I realized.. that this is actually occurring. Maybe not the funneling to DoD - but the increase in minimum wage and inflation - and the result to the government.
You really can't argue and win every discussion: from means, including, not exempting. All the presidents from Ike to Nixon were involved in some ways in the 'Nam war!
Well, of course. Seems a little iffy to leave out the names of the two main escalators, though, doesn't it?
As you are equally cable of speaking, reading and understanding our language, it would seem to me you are finding fault with the word, "from." And perhaps needlessly. I am not showing favouritism, merely pointing out the possible flaw in placing blame on a single President.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf
Well, of course. Seems a little iffy to leave out the names of the two main escalators, though, doesn't it?
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,327 posts, read 54,350,985 times
Reputation: 40731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf
The previous poster made reference to Vietnam and "Republican plutocrats", and you name only the bookend GOP Presidents. Are you seriously arguing that LBJ was not the President who made the escalation to a major war in Vietnam?
Since when is escalation a synonym for started, your original claim?
Since when is escalation a synonym for started, your original claim?
Hey, if you wanna parse, be my guest. Look at the math:
Ike put in a couple hundred advisors and was iffy about the whole deal.
JFK added 11,500.
LBJ added 513,000 more.
Who started the war?
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