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A study done the the U.S. Dept. of Justice under the Clinton administration in the 1990s, found that 3.1 million people reported using a gun defensively to stop or deter crime in the year 1994 alone. Many of them reported multiple uses, with a total of 23 million incidents of Defensive Gun Usage that year.
Such uses include times when the gun was only mentioned, times when the gun was produced in view of the criminal, times when it was fired with no one injured, times when the criminal was injured, and times when the criminal was killed. Of course, in the large majority of incidents, the gun was not fired, or was deliberately fired into the air (warning shot). In the vast majority of incidents, the criminal(s) either fled, or surrendered and was taken into custody.
The study states flatly that "guns are used far more often to defend against crime than to perpetrate crime."
As you can probably guess, these studies have received very little coverage in the mainstream media.
Other studies by other groups, including a recent one by the Obama administration, have shown similar patterns.
These results compile only the people who freely admitted to a stranger calling on the phone and saying he was from the government, that they had used their gun to defend themselves in a crime incident. The number of people who declined to answer, is not included.
3.1 million people reported using a gun defensively in one year? LOL. In my 60 years that would make app. 180 million people who used a gun defensively. I don`t know of one.
what does breaking it down by race accomplish? Are you saying that since these crimes are commited in "gehttos" and "urban enviros" it's not an American problem?
Does race or location release you from being part of the equation? Have you somehow exempted yourself from being American?
That is exactly what I'm saying.
I am a gun owner, as are most of my family members and friends.
I grew up with guns.
No one in my family or circle of friends has ever killed anyone, nor have they been killed by guns.
Have criminals run out of illegal drugs? No. What makes you think they would ever run out of guns, are you going to wave your liberal fairy wand and make all guns across the planet turn into daisys?
You people really have blinders on as far a the real world, don't you? How have those weapon-free zones been working so far?
You have to understand, Neuling is not a US citizen and they don't live in the USA.
Have criminals run out of illegal drugs? No. What makes you think they would ever run out of guns, are you going to wave your liberal fairy wand and make all guns across the planet turn into daisys?
You people really have blinders on as far a the real world, don't you? How have those weapon-free zones been working so far?
As I have said, maybe it is the unfortunate way things work in the US, but the US is just one country, in most industrialized countries citizens don't have and need firearms as the police ensures a sufficient degree of safety and security.
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Originally Posted by JimRom
Wishful thinking at its finest. When I was younger, I dated a girl whose brother-in-law was a corrections officer at one of the most notorious maximum security prisons in the United States. We went to visit one holiday, and he had a file box full of confiscated items that he showed me. Among these were nearly two dozen "zip guns" that had been made by prisoners who were in a maximum security facility. Now, if these inmates could manage to jury-rig firearms while they were in maximum security, what makes you think someone out the street couldn't do the same on a larger scale?
The prisoners had firearms made out of ball-point pens, which would only be good for something up close and personal, basically disposable .22 firearms - they had even managed to smuggle in .22 rounds for ammunition. However, someone outside of prison who has access to even the most rudimentary tools could easily manufacture something much larger, more accurate, and much more durable. If you truly believe that the only way to obtain a firearm is through a "legitimate" manufacturer, you are sadly mistaken. There is absolutely no way to stop someone from manufacturing a workable firearm from parts that can purchased at the local hardware store.
As for ammunition, the formula for gunpowder has been around for hundreds of years. It really isn't difficult to make, and quite frankly you don't even have to get the measurements precise in order for it to do the job intended.
See above. When something works in other places, is it not worth emulating just because it is not the American way so to speak? Intelligent people have always learned from other people's mistakes and achievements...
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Originally Posted by Robert_J
Part of my freedom and liberty is the right of self defense. I don't get to choose when, where or what is brought to the "party" when I have an interaction with a bad guy therefore I bring an equalizer. I do not want that interaction to happen. In fact, I do everything I can to keep it from happening but I'm still prepared for it.
Yes, my .gov is stepping all over my rights in violating the Constitution. I am well aware of it. Is it time to take up arms against them? Some think so. I'm not there yet. But what would they be doing if the citizens weren't armed?
Nothing we can do about it? You are thinking of a head to head battle with the US military. It won't happen like that. It will be a war of attrition. A lot of people assume that 100% of the military and law enforcement would follow orders against citizens. There would be "defectors". How many? 1%? 10%? 50% I don't know. But a lot of them believe in their oath to uphold the Constitution against enemies foreign and domestic.
Well, I am happy I don't need to defend myself. Maybe Americans consider that boring, I don't know.
As I said, I find it sad when people feel like they might need to defend themselves any moment, that is not much different from countries like Iraq. Sure, statistically Iraq is much more dangerous in terms of actual crimes, but the feeling must be similar when people in the US feel that unsafe. I can't even imagine what it must be like to be afraid I might get attacked, robbed, shot or whatever. I never ever felt like that here.
See above. When something works in other places, is it not worth emulating just because it is not the American way so to speak? Intelligent people have always learned from other people's mistakes and achievements...
First, just because something works in one place doesn't mean it will work in another. American society is like no other society in the world by its very nature.
Second, America was built on the lessons learned from other people's mistakes. The founding of America was referred to as "The Great Experiment" because it was something which had never been done before. It has worked for over 200 years now, and quite frankly I don't see a reason to change it. Do we have problems in America? Yes. However, we also have a system in place which allows us to fix those problems. Your opinion of our gun laws counts for exactly nothing. You have no vote, you have no influence, you have no say whatsoever in how the United States is run. I don't know if you have ever even visited America, but judging from your stated belief that Americans feel a need to defend themselves at all times I would say you haven't. I don't carry a firearm because I feel the need to defend myself, I carry a firearm in case I need to defend myself. By the same token, I have a fire extinguisher in case my house catches on fire, a spare tire in case I get a flat, and cash in my wallet in case the debit card network goes down. Quite frankly, other than making sure that my firearm is secure I give it about as much thought as I do any of those other items. A firearm is a tool, nothing more and nothing less. It isn't inherently evil, it isn't going to cause its owner to commit crime, and it isn't going to go on a random shooting spree all by itself. Once again, firearms are not the cause of the crime problem in America.
America has no need to emulate European culture. The entire purpose of the founding of the United States was to get away from the European culture in the first place. If there were truly as many issues with America as you seem to think, I highly doubt that we would be seeing massive amounts of immigrants pouring into our country.
Not even that 'in case' exists here. I feel so safe I don't even have to think of my safety or security. And I think that is the way it should be.
Initially the US might have been an interesting experiment, but frankly, I think it has been going down the drain for quite some time, not least because there is the tendency to hold on to the past. I am pretty sure the oh so great founding fathers of the US would not like what has become of the US...
Many immigrants go to the US because of the money, not because they think it is such a great place. After all, many come from poor countries. For Latin Americans the US is pretty much the only place they can go to as they can't take the plane to Europe, Asia or wherever.
As I have said, maybe it is the unfortunate way things work in the US, but the US is just one country, in most industrialized countries citizens don't have and need firearms as the police ensures a sufficient degree of safety and security.
A few months ago, my security system was tripped by my two cats fighting. It took approximately 7 minutes for the police officer to get to my house. Within 10 seconds the alarm going off, I had a 9mm pistol in my hand and my wife was headed to the safe area where her 9mm was stored. Until the local police have a response time in seconds, I'm staying armed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling
Well, I am happy I don't need to defend myself. Maybe Americans consider that boring, I don't know.
As I said, I find it sad when people feel like they might need to defend themselves any moment, that is not much different from countries like Iraq. Sure, statistically Iraq is much more dangerous in terms of actual crimes, but the feeling must be similar when people in the US feel that unsafe. I can't even imagine what it must be like to be afraid I might get attacked, robbed, shot or whatever. I never ever felt like that here.
You don't set the parameters for an altercation, the bad guys do. When I see people on the news saying "It was such a nice neighborhood" and "I never thought it could happen here", I think those people are naive. Violence directed at you can happen anywhere.
I am fully aware that the odds of me being the target of any violence is rare but so are other things. People average one car accident every 10 years but they carry automobile insurance and wear their seat belt. I also bought a car with some of the best safety features on the market. The chance of having a house fire is minimal but I carry fire insurance as well as having smoke detectors throughout the house and a fire extinguisher in the kitchen. The chance of being swept away in a tornado is slim but I've hidden in a closet during a warning situation.
All of those above are more after the fact type measures. I drive defensively. Years of being on the interstates that criss-cross Memphis have shown me more examples of idiot drivers that I can count so I expect everyone to do something stupid in certain situations.
When it comes to personal safety, the best thing to do is not get into a violent situation. I avoid parts of town that are high crime areas. That is difficult in a metro area like Memphis but some places are worse than others. If there an altercation starts, I have to swallow my pride and leave. Attorneys that specialize in self defense have written countless times that any escalation by the concealed carry party will be a negative mark against him in the eyes of the law.
If you can't leave, you de-escalate. Again, swallow your pride and apologize to the jerk that just insulted your wife. Carrying a weapon full time is not for the guy (or gal) with a big ego and a quick temper. If it keeps escalating, do everything you can to diffuse the situation.
When you have exhausted every avenue and you know your life is in danger, you don't go half-way. You don't shoot to wound. You don't fire a warning shot. You shoot until the threat has stopped. If you aren't sure when, legally, that is then watch a few of the videos by Massad Ayoob. He has been an expert witness in hundreds of self defense shootings.
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