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The thread may not be about Obama but you can still count on:
Liberal/Obama Supporter Auto Response Protocol™
1. The source isn't valid
2. That's racist
3. GOP obstruction
4. But...but...but George W. Bush
5. Haters gonna hate
6. Repeat 1,2,3,4 and/or 5 as needed then insult the opposition for failing to support this great man, declare victory, and move on
Quote:
You left out "an offensive video", "phony scandal", and "Halliburton!!!" .
Unfortunately, I am perceived by gun advocates as anti-gun because I believe that people should be trained and licensed to have a gun. Too many idiots and reprobates running around armed IMO. Unfortunately, instead of cleaning up the gene pool and shooting each other, they generally end up shooting bunches of innocent people. The Anti gunners think I'm progun because I have stated many times that I support the 2nd and own numerous handguns and rifles of the assault weapon variety.
Here's my take on concealed carry.
I agree with concealed carry if properly trained in safety, operation and legal ramifications. Arizona now has a CCW law that say's you can carry concealed without a license in certain places. I disagree with that and I have an actual Arizona CCW permit issued by DPS, our State Police. I was trained over a 3 day period in safety, operation, when to shoot and when to retreat, legal ramifications of pulling the trigger, etc. I was throughly background checked also. I agree with this type of concealed carry. When my CCW expired, I renewed it again through the Arizona DPS instead of just carrying concealed. As a gun owner I feel I have a responsibility to society as a whole and not just to the 2nd amendment.
I carry concealed, everywhere, all the time. I'm carrying now as I write this. In summer it's a Ruger LCP that is a little pocket pistol. In winter, it's a 9mm 12 shot, semi-auto pistol. My guns are always concealed except when I'm out in the desert away from the public. Then, it's a Ruger P90 45 auto for bear, cougar and rattlesnakes.
I firmly believe in concealed carry for the following reasons.
1. I am old. Very old. People like me are considered prey by the younger, drug addled crowd. They rob us in the WalMart parking lot, they carjack us at stoplights and they kick in our front doors at night and beat on us and take all our stuff. Half the time it's middle class teenagers who live down the block and they will kill you so you can't identify them, or so they think. Every body in my neighborhood knows me and knows I carry all the time. They know I'll shoot to kill the first person who tries to come through my door with criminal intent.
2. Carrying concealed in public is much safer than open carry. If a person intends to proceed with criminal action in a public place, if you open carry, he's gonna spot that when he cases the area. He'll shoot you first. CCW also doesn't scare the California transplants.
My short answer for anyone asking why I'm always armed, "I'm too old to fight and too proud to run".
In the long run I do think that criminals would run out of guns.
There would also be an elegant way around the second amendment: people may keep their guns, but the possession of ammunition could be outlawed and severely punished, ammunition is not mentioned in the amendment
Another way would be to declare so many types of buildings and spaces weapon-free zones that there is no point in running around with guns anymore.
Where do gun crimes tend to be the most prevelant? Oh wait, gun free zones, and cities where there are limitations on gun ownership. It won't work. In a perfect world we wouldn't need guns. Unfortunately, this world isn't perfect.
The thread may not be about Obama but you can still count on:
Liberal/Obama Supporter Auto Response Protocolâ„¢
1. The source isn't valid
2. That's racist
3. GOP obstruction
4. But...but...but George W. Bush
5. Haters gonna hate
6. Repeat 1,2,3,4 and/or 5 as needed then insult the opposition for failing to support this great man, declare victory, and move on
Quote:
I'm a liberal in the eyes of the conservative posters here on P&OC and I just posted prior to reading this and I didn't post anything like what you're saying. Come Again????What exactly are you saying? Nothing........Nothing at all.
Unfortunately, I am perceived by gun advocates as anti-gun because I believe that people should be trained and licensed to have a gun. Too many idiots and reprobates running around armed IMO. Unfortunately, instead of cleaning up the gene pool and shooting each other, they generally end up shooting bunches of innocent people. The Anti gunners think I'm progun because I have stated many times that I support the 2nd and own numerous handguns and rifles of the assault weapon variety.
Here's my take on concealed carry.
I agree with concealed carry if properly trained in safety, operation and legal ramifications. Arizona now has a CCW law that say's you can carry concealed without a license in certain places. I disagree with that and I have an actual Arizona CCW permit issued by DPS, our State Police. I was trained over a 3 day period in safety, operation, when to shoot and when to retreat, leagl ramifications of pulling the trigger, etc. I was throughly background checked also. I agree with this type of concealed carry. When my CCW expired, I renewed it again through the Arizona DPS instead of just carrying concealed. As a gun owner I feel I have a responsibility to society as a whole and not just to the 2nd amendment.
I carry concealed, everywhere, all the time. I'm carrying now as I write this. In summer it's a Ruger LCP that is a little pocket pistol. In winter, it's a 9mm 12 shot, semi-auto pistol. My guns are always concealed except when I'm out in the desert away from the public. Then, it's a Ruger P90 45 auto for bear cougar and rattlesnakes.
I firmly believe in concealed carry for the following reasons.
1. I am old. Very old. People like me are considered prey by the younger, drug addled crowd. They rob us in the WalMart parking lot, they carjack us at stoplights and they kick in our front doors at night and beat on us and take all our stuff. Half the time it's middle class teenagers who live down the block and they will kill you so you can't identify them, or so they think. Every body in my neighborhood knows me and knows I carry all the time. They know I'll shoot to kill the first person who tries to come through my door with criminal intent.
2. Carrying concealed in public is much safer than open carry. If a person intends to proceed with criminal action in a public place, if you open carry, he's gonna spot that when he cases the area. He'll shoot you first. CCW also doesn't scare the California transplants.
My short answer for anyone asking why I'm always armed, "I'm too old to fight and too proud to run".
But don't you think there is something fundamentally wrong with society if you feel like you have to be armed in order to be safe?
No, because you believe government should have the authority to decide who can have a gun and who can't.
That's your conclusion and it's totally off base. I believe in the SCOTUS ruling of reasonable restrictions. I believe there should be a mechanism in place to screen out the Mentally deficient, felons and blatent idiots who have no knowledge or respect for guns or society. If I knew you personally, I'd bet a dollar to a donut that you'd be a prime candidate for the idiot squad.
Actually (as I already pointed out) The data comes from people who didn't mind telling a complete stranger on the phone, that they had used their gun in a crime situation.
I have to wonder: How many people who had been in a tight situation before, gotten a call from this poll-taker, who told them he was from the government, and the person being called decided he was better off NOT telling this strange person from the gvovernment that he had pulled a gun on someone who threatened him? For fear that some demagoguic hysterical cometclear-type fanatic would turn it around and start insisting that he had, how should I say this, uh, lied or distorted what had happened?
A cometclear-type fanatic who wasn't there knew nothing, and cared less; but still decided to smear him and denigrate him for saying something that the fanatic didn't want to be true? And who then might sic the cops on him to investigate his use of a gun and plaster him all over the local papers? And so he decide to simply tell the strange government person on the phone, Gee, sorry, never heard of it, not that I know of, sorry I can't help.
And so, maybe there were many MORE defensive gun usages that were admmitted to these government people who called strangers on the phone?
Now that you mention it....
I have stated on a couple occasions my skepticism that gun control laws will curb violent crime. You will choose to ignore this and go with the obligatory caricature. You will look foolish when I remind you of this. Just as I am skeptical of claims that gun control laws will reduce crime, I am similarly skeptical of claims that more hand guns are used to stop crimes than in the commission of crimes, particularly when based upon "self-reporting." I'm having a medical procedure done this week and I wanted to get some stats on the probabilities of outcomes. Much of it was "self-reported" data. That's fine, but what counts is data that emerges from follow-up examinations by professionals of the patients, not what the patients perceive to be the outcomes. I am interested in data that is driven by investigations by authorities, in which we know there actually was a crime or threat of a crime and the details reveal that a gun was used to prevent a crime. I'm not interested in seeing data that is driven by "self-reporting" on this issue, just as you would probably be uninterested in data that concludes that racial discrimination is rampant in America, based solely upon "self-reported" perceptions of racial discrimination.
I am skeptical of the claims of gun control advocates and of gun rights absolutists. You are skeptical of one side of the equation.
BTW, do we have any rough estimates for how many crimes using guns go unreported in the United States? That would affect the ratio of guns used to prevent crimes versus guns used in the commission of crimes.
No, because you believe government should have the authority to decide who can have a gun and who can't.
Are you arguing that the state has no authority to prohibit you from owning automatic weapons? Does the state have the authority to prohibit six year-olds from hunting? What about prohibiting convicted felons from owning firearms? Can the state do any of those things?
But don't you think there is something fundamentally wrong with society if you feel like you have to be armed in order to be safe?
Yes. But you also have to deal with reality. The crime in my town of 11,000 is mostly committed by middle class white teens and young adults on drugs. I honestly don't think there are any African Americans in our town. I haven't seen one in over a month. The Mexicans don't commit crimes because they keep a low profile and stay out of the spotlight. Most work in the hospitality industry. Our town also has a lot of retirees. There's an urban myth out there that say's all us old people have all the money and stuff. All the disdain and hate directed towards old people comes from white middle class young adults. When you see a thread on C-D wailing against Baby Boomers, these are the same demographics who hate, rob and beat on old people. It's very common in AZ for a gang to kick in your door and rob you blind and beat you in the process. They cruise the interstate and do quick hits in small towns and are gone.
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