Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Ask yourself what happened to a positive thread about blacks that was first posted about an hour ago.
Nah, it's the internet. I actually stopped wondering about these types of people years ago. At least, now they are out in the open and no longer slither along in the dirty underbelly of society. Still sad that they haven't kept up with societal developments and learning.
I think it's fairly common knowledge that slavery has existed for as long as there has been civilization.
It existed across time, cultures, races. No one is immune from having "ancestors" that were at some point engaged in slaving others.
It may be accurate to say that the Africa-New World transatlantic slave trade was short in comparison to all of world history, but it's not accurate to say that "white people" were engaged in slavery for "less" time. They had slavery just like everyone else for as long as everyone else....including (mostly North, but also Sub Saharan) Africans themselves, who also enslaved whites from Europe for centuries. Seems to be a symptom of civilization.
What Europeans (rather, the West, as Africans subject to the same ideas and thoughts were obviously participants in same) CAN take credit for are principles of enlightenment and reason that led to abolitionist ideas becoming the NORM throughout the world.
I don't think slavery needs to be "apologized" for, but it can be acknowledged the way we acknowledge all bad things that happen to people. Slavery has effects TODAY in our country, those EFFECTS - not assigning or shifting cosmic responsibility for something that goes back to Mesopotamia and Egyptian times - should be the focus of discussions.
I think it's fairly common knowledge that slavery has existed for as long as there has been civilization.
It existed across time, cultures, races. No one is immune from having "ancestors" that were at some point engaged in slaving others.
It may be accurate to say that the Africa-New World transatlantic slave trade was short in comparison to all of world history, but it's not accurate to say that "white people" were engaged in slavery for "less" time. They had slavery just like everyone else for as long as everyone else....including (mostly North, but also Sub Saharan) Africans themselves, who also enslaved whites from Europe for centuries. Seems to be a symptom of civilization.
What Europeans (rather, the West, as Africans subject to the same ideas and thoughts were obviously participants in same) CAN take credit for are principles of enlightenment and reason that led to abolitionist ideas becoming the NORM throughout the world.
I don't think slavery needs to be "apologized" for, but it can be acknowledged the way we acknowledge all bad things that happen to people. Slavery has effects TODAY in our country, those EFFECTS - not assigning or shifting cosmic responsibility for something that goes back to Mesopotamia and Egyptian times - should be the focus of discussions.
Eloquent words sir. The fact of the matter is slavery was ended by whites, and is wasn't started by them. That is an undeniable truth!
and to boot fought a war where hundreds of thousands of predominetly white died to dissolve this Arabic brown skinned started institution. Just thought you liberal white apologists should know that!
So now you are making excuses for white slavery! Is Stormfront down today?
That you offer no evidence to support your poorly thought out arguments is pretty sad. Do we have any apologists for the mentally disabled around here?
and to boot fought a war where hundreds of thousands of predominetly white died to dissolve this Arabic brown skinned started institution. Just thought you liberal white apologists should know that!
It doesn't matter. History is still witness to the reality that what white Americans did to blacks for about 200 years was wrong.
I think it's fairly common knowledge that slavery has existed for as long as there has been civilization.
It existed across time, cultures, races. No one is immune from having "ancestors" that were at some point engaged in slaving others.
It may be accurate to say that the Africa-New World transatlantic slave trade was short in comparison to all of world history, but it's not accurate to say that "white people" were engaged in slavery for "less" time. They had slavery just like everyone else for as long as everyone else....including (mostly North, but also Sub Saharan) Africans themselves, who also enslaved whites from Europe for centuries. Seems to be a symptom of civilization.
What Europeans (rather, the West, as Africans subject to the same ideas and thoughts were obviously participants in same) CAN take credit for are principles of enlightenment and reason that led to abolitionist ideas becoming the NORM throughout the world.
I don't think slavery needs to be "apologized" for, but it can be acknowledged the way we acknowledge all bad things that happen to people. Slavery has effects TODAY in our country, those EFFECTS - not assigning or shifting cosmic responsibility for something that goes back to Mesopotamia and Egyptian times - should be the focus of discussions.
Let's understand that the slave trade in America was unique. It codified this idea of race. And it codified that slavery was racially based and had brown skin. It codified that those slaves were genetically inferior and barely human. In other words, American slavery spread a poison throughout the world in a way that no other form of slavery has ever done.
And the idea that Europeans get to take sole credit for the abolition of slavery is something I don't support.
Let's also understand that after the abolishment of slavery that black people were then subject to another 100 years of terroristic violence and sharecropping, no education, etc and so on all the way up until the damn 1960's black people still in many parts of the world were thought to be inferior and less than human by a huge percentage of Europeans.
Let's understand that the slave trade in America was unique. It codified this idea of race. And it codified that slavery was racially based and had brown skin. It codified that those slaves were genetically inferior and barely human. In other words, American slavery spread a poison throughout the world in a way that no other form of slavery has ever done.
I think it's debatable that racism is a European invention. The way we think about racism today - and its genetic component (where of course genetics is a fairly recent discovery) - is a European thing, but at its core, racism and superiority is ancient tribalism on steroids.
For example, European racism does not/did not explain the Indian caste system that just *happens* to correlate rather heavily with skin color.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73
And the idea that Europeans get to take sole credit for the abolition of slavery is something I don't support.
It's not necessarily EUROPEANS, but Western enlightenment - with its genesis in Europe - is pretty much the progenitor of many - if not all - of the "social justice" and "civil rights" arguments that you hold today. This includes arguments by people of different races operating and educated within the European-Western cultural paradigm. These people include American born blacks who studied side by side with those espousing abolitionist views.
Being created equal, slavery being bad, racism being bad, sexism being bad, religious intolerance being bad, colonialism being bad..... pretty much every socially liberal concept sprung from self-realization that these things IN AND OF THEMSELVES are bad.
Perhaps you can point to examples of other societies and cultures that developed this point of view, at which point I would be happy to examine same and admit that I am wrong.
Prior to the enlightenment period, people across the world fought against oppression they felt from outside groups... but it wasn't a fight because oppression or slavery or being conquered was deemed in and of itself was wrong... but was rather a reaction against the slavery/conquer of "MY PEOPLE by YOUR people."
I'm sorry if that's uncomfortable for you to acknowledge, but you will note that many cultures to this day STILL have not signed on to what we consider "human rights."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73
Let's also understand that after the abolishment of slavery that black people were then subject to another 100 years of terroristic violence and sharecropping, no education, etc and so on all the way up until the damn 1960's black people still in many parts of the world were thought to be inferior and less than human by a huge percentage of Europeans.
What does that have to do with the topic or anything I posted?
It doesn't matter. History is still witness to the reality that what white Americans did to blacks for about 200 years was wrong.
But does anyone except the looniest of fringe people ever say that slavery was a good thing or wasn't wrong, at least through our modern lens and values?
If such a system existed in the world today we would not stand for it. Of course, slavery still exists today in a much less systemic way, and the world condemns it.
I think it's debatable that racism is a European invention. The way we think about racism today - and its genetic component (where of course genetics is a fairly recent discovery) - is a European thing, but at its core, racism and superiority is ancient tribalism on steroids.
For example, European racism does not/did not explain the Indian caste system that just *happens* to correlate rather heavily with skin color.
It's not necessarily EUROPEANS, but Western enlightenment - with its genesis in Europe - is pretty much the progenitor of many - if not all - of the "social justice" and "civil rights" arguments that you hold today. This includes arguments by people of different races operating and educated within the European-Western cultural paradigm. These people include American born blacks who studied side by side with those espousing abolitionist views.
Being created equal, slavery being bad, racism being bad, sexism being bad, religious intolerance being bad, colonialism being bad..... pretty much every socially liberal concept sprung from self-realization that these things IN AND OF THEMSELVES are bad.
Perhaps you can point to examples of other societies and cultures that developed this point of view, at which point I would be happy to examine same and admit that I am wrong.
Prior to the enlightenment period, people across the world fought against oppression they felt from outside groups... but it wasn't a fight because oppression or slavery or being conquered was deemed in and of itself was wrong... but was rather a reaction against the slavery/conquer of "MY PEOPLE by YOUR people."
I'm sorry if that's uncomfortable for you to acknowledge, but you will note that many cultures to this day STILL have not signed on to what we consider "human rights."
What does that have to do with the topic or anything I posted?
It is not debatable at all that Europeans spread the poisonous idea of black racial inferiority and the idea that of the white racial identity, ideas which came to define the world.
You didn't say western thought, you wrote Europeans.
It matters because after this "European" enlightenment, those enlightened Europeans in America then subjected black people to another 100 years of slavery like conditions.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.