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It does apply to every human being, just as gravity applies to every human being. Some people defy the Bible... whatever... doesn't mean they won't suffer the consequences. It APPLIES to every human being because we are all God's creation. It won't be followed by every human being. It's just like mathematical laws. Assuming base 10 here, 1+1=2. I can create my own system in which 1+1=green bananas, but that'll be in my own world. It won't change how 1+1=2... and using my own system outside of my own little world sure would make me look silly.
But you believe in a false Messiah. I don't try to ban you from your foolishness, so why are you forcing your immoral beliefs to extend beyond your lifestyle?
"In a different thread, evolutionists agreed that they cannot explain how life began... they said they were okay with that. Perhaps that's not good enough in an educational setting wherein life is dissected and life processes are taught."
You are confusing evolution with abiogenesis. Do some homework and learn the difference.
No, they're not. Governmental laws don't trump, nor change, scientific facts. Gender is a state determined by genetics, not a state determined by feelings or surgical operations. Were it so, then there'd be no such thing as gender in any other living species because those living species don't have "feelings of gender identity". They can legalize gender changes all they want to... that doesn't mean that the person has TRULY changed gender. It just means that the federal government has decided that it will recognize gender based upon someone's feelings and maybe an operation or two, rather than someone's genetic code. The government can be wrong, believe it or not.
Here's a question for you. Two gay people have a marriage ceremony in a state that does not presently recognize gay marriage. Are they married? ("Legally, no.") But what defines a marriage? A legal construct? Wait a second... gay rights activists argue that it's a societal construct which attests to commitment, enhances social stability, etc. The purpose of the legal construct is merely for federal benefits. If marriage is just a term bestowed by the government and there are no social or human aspects to it whatsoever, why are gay people and their supporters fighting so hard for MARRIAGE when the alternative has been proposed that they get "civil unions" with the same federal benefits as marriage? We've said "HERE! Here's the legal construct! Will this do?" and they said "NO!!! MARRIAGE OR NOTHING!!!" So apparently it goes beyond the legal construct!
I'm concerned with equal treatment under the law. Therefore, if a person completes a sex-change and are now either a man or a woman in the eyes of the law, that is enough for me to refer to that person with the proper pronoun. I also would respect how he or she wants to be referred to, legal status or not. Once again, you're so narrow-minded that you fail to be able to say, "Hey, I've never felt that way, who am I to judge someone and tell them what they're feeling is wrong."
Two gay people married in a state that doesn't allow gay marriage...no, they aren't married. They'd need to travel to a state that allows gay marriage and once they receive their license and return to their home state, in eyes of the federal government and IRS, yes, the couple is legally married. Once again, the concern is equal treatment by the government, not your magical talking conch shell. Your marriage versus civil union terminology argument literally makes no logical sense. You, yourself just said marriage is just a term...so if it is indeed just a term, why the hell can't it be used for both heterosexual and homosexual marriages?
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Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy
And YOU don't seem to get that the people arguing from the perspective of the LAW are arguing from something changeable and fluid... and therefore, invalid as the foundation of an argument. Laws don't make truth. Laws should exist BECAUSE of truth and be aligned WITH the truth, or at least not do anything to debunk nor stifle the truth even if they allow other perspectives to be equal. The LAW once declared black people unequal to white people. Does that mean that they TRULY were unequal, or just that some people had codified this based upon their own beliefs? How about another one that people LOVE to quote. Back in the day, women and slaves were legally property. Slaves were counted as 3/5 of a person in the Constitution, though there was indeed a logical reason for that. Were such people inherently equal human beings with free white males, or were they truly only 60% as genetically and physiologically "human" as the rest of us until the law declared them equal?
Back in the day, you could be put to death for declaring that the Sun was the center of the universe. Did that LAW make it TRUE that the Earth was the center of the universe, or did it merely ignore the REAL truth?
This is why I don't argue from the perspective of laws. Laws are written by the winning political party. Absolute truths never change.
What defines an absolute truth? Don't say God or the Bible because that answer won't hold up...anywhere but a church. Laws are great because they can be changed...they can be changed for the better for the sake of equality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy
It does apply to every human being, just as gravity applies to every human being. Some people defy the Bible... whatever... doesn't mean they won't suffer the consequences. It APPLIES to every human being because we are all God's creation. It won't be followed by every human being. It's just like mathematical laws. Assuming base 10 here, 1+1=2. I can create my own system in which 1+1=green bananas, but that'll be in my own world. It won't change how 1+1=2... and using my own system outside of my own little world sure would make me look silly.
Well gravity does indeed apply to everyone, there is no choice there. Oh but hey, doesn't your religion also promote free will? So yeah, wrong again, it doesn't apply to everyone because a person can use his or her free will to follow whatever he or she chooses. You think the "gay agenda" is bad being shoved in people's faces? Your non-sense of "THE BIBLE APPLIES TO EVERYONE! CHRISTIANITY IS THE END ALL BE ALL!" ... THAT is shoving something in a person's face. Your complete and total unwillingness to even entertain the idea that religion is simply a PERSONAL conviction makes you so myopic that you're not even respectable, it simply makes you an extremist. You think YOUR religion should be in control for creating laws for a diverse society, etc. I will gladly respect the fact that a person has devout religious convictions, but when he or she feels that those convictions apply to every other human being--the person is an extremist, brainwashed, Kool-Aid drinking fool.
Some of your arguments were well thought out, good debate material. It takes someone on both sides of the argument to think a rebuttal through and develop an intelligent response. But when you start spewing this nonsense that Christianity and the Bible and are the end all, be all, you once again, completely invalidate any standing ground you may have had. You essentially hit a point where you have nothing else to say, so you try to play your trump card and it's a complete and total fail.
More bickering among the mere mortals. "God sends the blessing of rain on the wicked as well as the good"...People fail to realize that GOD is almighty and created the negative as well as the positive in this physical realm.
Good and evil...What is evil? I would say it is what does not sustain life and what brings about suffering and destruction of life. Nature itself is full of great goodness and life and it also contains great evil and destructive powers..
All of us live out a life span...all of us will in time through time disappear and be forgotten for forever...oblivion (to be forgotten by all) awaits us all.
People in the harsh reality of loneliness seek some comfort during our short time on earth...To some it comes easily to others they have to fight to gain security and love.
I socially speaking as a conservative person opposed the IDEA of the interloping of gay folks into the supposedly exclusive realm of marriage or life time partnership...in the long run it does not matter much...for no matter how we protest we can do little to control other and bring them to the human standards that we as human beings have deemed correct...The best we can do to gain stability and a measure of control in our lives is to control our selves.
Those oppose to same sex unions on a formal level we call marriage should learn to control their own emotions and take care of their own lives - The world is changing - humanity for some is evolving and to some it is in a state of de-evolution. God does not sit on a throne and make judgement over human beings who are mere germs in the larger scheme of things...It is mankind that casts judgement on their fellow human beings...It is mankind trying to play God that seeks to punish and condemn.
This issue has always be wrought with intense emotion...emotion defies logic and clouds the landscape of reason. Sexuality in it's primary purpose was by design a mechanism to recreate and generate more human beings because we are temporal creatures...Some people born to this earth were not meant to reproduce....God generated these people just as well as he generated straight people.
The real issues that we should be passionate about are - poverty - hunger - human brutality - insanity and common murder...These are real issues that haunt mankind and there seem to be no resolution in sight...Emotion is for art- music - making love...appreciating beauty...It has no place anywhere else.
For all those who wish to control people who are of what seems to be a mutated or different sexuality - they have one thing they should do...........as I mentioned control themselves...Once you have bridled the mouth of the beast you control the whole animal...What you say in hate...defiles you....
Our culture was built on LOVE.....unrestricted love of our fellow human being...it is time to be more godly and show GRACE....
Grace is the undeserved mercy of God...If God can grant mercy to those we deem undeserving than we can do the same. God grants grace to all.
Nice try trying to gloss over it. So what it is a single event? It really did happen and you can no longer claim that zero Christians are affected by society's push of gays into the mainstream.
Plus violence in the name of religion is not the same was violence committed by born again believers. A born again Christian would not be resorting to violence.
Omg, buddy, you're making this too easy. I'm sure you have SOME intelligence, so please don't insult yourself by making this such an easy rebut.
You just said yourself that it was a single event. So, you're telling me that because ONE event happened, that gives you ammo to say, "YEP YEP, lookie, look what he did! SEE, SEE! I'm right!" BULL! The amount of intolerance that comes out of Christians shoving their beliefs down society's throat is ridiculous. You think the "gay agenda" is being "pushed" hahaha, what the hell do you call the devout Christian standing at Smithfield & Fifth in Downtown Pittsburgh chanting and telling us how we're all going to Hell if we don't repent and getting an attitude when I politely decline his hand-out? THAT, my friend is someone pushing something down my throat, involuntarily.
Violence in the name of religion isn't the same? Really? So is that like the Old Testament? Just sweep it under the rug, nothing to see here...
i can't believe that this thread is still going. It's obviously why people support gay marriage. they realize the FACT that a sexual orientation isn't chosen (for most) or changeable (in most cases unless it was chosen in the first place which isn't possible for most).
2. marriage to a woman for a gay man is NOT an EQUAL right to a STRAIGHT man getting married to a woman. You can't have a law that gives benefits that can only be HONESTLY gotten by having a majority trait without offering something equal to sexual minorities in terms of laws and benefits. (religion has NOTHING to do with this unless individual couples want it too)
3. JUST ASK a GAY person how they feel, this issue really only affects them and their loved ones so that should give you the answer. their opinion should also MATTER more then too
i can't believe that this thread is still going. It's obviously why people support gay marriage. they realize the FACT that a sexual orientation isn't chosen (for most) or changeable (in most cases unless it was chosen in the first place which isn't possible for most).
2. marriage to a woman for a gay man is NOT an EQUAL right to a STRAIGHT man getting married to a woman. You can't have a law that gives benefits that can only be HONESTLY gotten by having a majority trait without offering something equal to sexual minorities in terms of laws and benefits. (religion has NOTHING to do with this unless individual couples want it too)
3. JUST ASK a GAY person how they feel, this issue really only affects them and their loved ones so that should give you the answer. their opinion should also MATTER more then too
1. It's never been proven that sexual orientation is an inborn trait. If this were the case, we should see identical twins both become gay. Studies show it doesn't happen. If it is not changeable, why do a lot of lesbians have history of male partners, or people flip flop between bisexual desires?
2. Fine, give them equal rights and benefits via a civil union. Why the need to redefine a tradition that is tied closely to religious beliefs?
3. Gay marriage will affect everyone in society. We will be accepting a new society that no longer regards the Bible as holy and true.
1. It's never been proven that sexual orientation is an inborn trait. If this were the case, we should see identical twins both become gay. Studies show it doesn't happen. If it is not changeable, why do a lot of lesbians have history of male partners, or people flip flop between bisexual desires?
2. Fine, give them equal rights and benefits via a civil union. Why the need to redefine a tradition that is tied closely to religious beliefs?
3. Gay marriage will affect everyone in society. We will be accepting a new society that no longer regards the Bible as holy and true.
1. If homosexuality is not an inborn trait, then neither is heterosexuality. If this is true, then one "choice" heterosexuality, should not receive more government protections than any other "choice".
You might also want to read a bit more on the twin studies. Hormones are not evenly distributed to the two twins. One twin might get more than the other. You do realize that maternal hormones that are released during pregnancy have an effect of the fetus. Right?
A lot of homosexuals period try to deny our natural attractions to fit in with the mainstream public. I was married twice. I was miserable, and depressed, but I was in a heterosexual relationship. That did not make me a heterosexual, it meant that I was a closeted lesbian. As for the flip flop between desires, you answered your own question. They are bisexual, meaning that they are attracted to both males and females.
2.No thanks. Separate but equal seldom is, and we have a legal structure already in existence call marriage.
3.Not everyone regards the bible as holy and true. We have this thing called the first amendment, and we also have many religions already in existence in the US. Most of them don't believe your bible is holy or true.
Keep your religion in your own life, and keep it out of mine.
Thanks.
1. It's never been proven that sexual orientation is an inborn trait. If this were the case, we should see identical twins both become gay. Studies show it doesn't happen. If it is not changeable, why do a lot of lesbians have history of male partners, or people flip flop between bisexual desires?
2. Fine, give them equal rights and benefits via a civil union. Why the need to redefine a tradition that is tied closely to religious beliefs?
3. Gay marriage will affect everyone in society. We will be accepting a new society that no longer regards the Bible as holy and true.
How do you feel about heterosexual atheists, agnostics, Buddhists, Muslims, etc getting "married" since apparently that's a term reserved for super Christians?
Since you're so adamantly against same-sex marriage, here's an idea: take a poll of residents within the states and countries where same-sex marriage has been legalized. Come back with responses about how it has affected them. They'd have first hand knowledge--in their states, same sex marriage is fully legal--on the state level and on the federal level. I'd be willing to bet the majority of responses will be similar to, "What? Oh...that. I don't care, doesn't affect me."
If you think that society regards the Bible as holy and true now, you must live in a VERY small town, never leave, and barely use the Internet. There are so many different religions and worship styles. To think Christianity is "THE" religion is purely ignorant with a side of a MAJOR superiority complex. You're free to be the biggest mega Christian you can be. Fill your yard with crosses, pray 24/7, all while loathing the gays on the side, but DO NOT, under ANY circumstances confuse the fact that religion is YOUR personal conviction and it does NOT dictate how this country treats its DIVERSE citizens.
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