Questions for people who support gay marriage (Illinois, New Jersey, Connecticut)

[jjrose]

Originally Posted by txdave35

You mean in private, never daring to speak the truth out loud in public? That kinda goes against Mark 16:15.
So basically you want to deny my freedom of religion.

Nope, you are free to speak your beliefs, and I am free to tell you what I think of your beliefs.
Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from the consequences of your speech.

Originally Posted by txdave35

Again, it's YOUR side that wants to endorse a personal belief and force a major societal change. And where does it stop? Can a gay person claim discrimination if a pastor refuses to marry them? Your side has already manipulated separation of church and state laws to allow gays to have leadership positions in Christian organizations if they have any government level ties. Where will it stop?

CHURCHES are not required to have a marriage ceremony for anyone. They can and do refuse people because of religious belief, past marriages, even race.

As for church orgs. IF they are taking federal or state dollars, they have to play by the governments rules. Don't like the rules, don't take government funding.

Originally Posted by txdave35

I have given specific examples on how SSM is affecting Christians negatively. Instead of honestly acknowledging that this reality exists, you try to sweep it under the rug with Well it's the LAW!! So freaking what? That doesn't change that people are already losing their jobs and businesses because of this issue.

1. Fox was wrong since the broadcaster was not on company time. However it is the company, and they can hire and fire at will if they are in an at will state.
The baker was shut down by the public. The customers didn't like what he had to say, so they refused to support his business. Again, there are consequences to free speech.

Originally Posted by txdave35

You are over simplifying a complex issue. I have no issue with people who want to live a gay lifestyle. If that is what makes you happy in life, go for it. I also think gay couples should have the same legal benefits as married couples. But the problem is this issue crosses over religious lines. You are bringing it into my house of worship, and on a social level, you are indeed forcing me to accept it as natural and normal. Otherwise, I face consequences.

No one is forcing YOU to accept anything. Your church can refuse gays, women, men, Hispanics, Jews, blacks, or Chinese for any reason your church chooses.
Legal marriage in this country is not a religious marriage. You can hove a civil marriage, with no church involvement. You can have a church ceremony with no legal recognition. You can have both.

Originally Posted by txdave35

(and yes, I realize marriages don't have to be conducted at church, but obviously there are gay couples out there who want a church ceremony)

And there are millions of churches that are perfectly willing to have ceremonies for same sex couples. YOUR church doesn't have to.

[Globe199]

I wonder if Papa Bush's witless son was there. That would've thrown him for a loop.

[HappyTexan]

Originally Posted by TriMT7

Why on earth do you think your CHOSEN BELIEF SYSTEM trumps inherent characteristics of a person's being?

Why should your CHOSEN beliefs be given more deference?


We don't allow Voodoo adherents to massacre goats and perform all the rituals they would like. We don't allow Muslims to do Honor Killings or to practice Sharia to the letter.

But we can't stop it either.

Five Headless Goats Found In Miami Lot After Possible Santeria Use (VIDEO)

http://abcnews.go.com/US/muslim-man-...ry?id=12975396

[TheDragonslayer]

Originally Posted by txdave35

So typical. Your side can't just have an open discussion. You have to always resort to insulting the other person's intelligence.






You mean in private, never daring to speak the truth out loud in public? That kinda goes against Mark 16:15.
So basically you want to deny my freedom of religion.



Again, it's YOUR side that wants to endorse a personal belief and force a major societal change. And where does it stop? Can a gay person claim discrimination if a pastor refuses to marry them? Your side has already manipulated separation of church and state laws to allow gays to have leadership positions in Christian organizations if they have any government level ties. Where will it stop?



I have given specific examples on how SSM is affecting Christians negatively. Instead of honestly acknowledging that this reality exists, you try to sweep it under the rug with Well it's the LAW!! So freaking what? That doesn't change that people are already losing their jobs and businesses because of this issue.

The thing you don't get is this is not a simple black and white issue. You refuse to look at the gray area here resorting back to the tactic of using labels like bigot and hypocrite to create an illusion of moral superiority.



I doubt it since you apparently have no problem with people losing their jobs and businesses because of exercising their right to free speech and religion.





You are over simplifying a complex issue. I have no issue with people who want to live a gay lifestyle. If that is what makes you happy in life, go for it. I also think gay couples should have the same legal benefits as married couples. But the problem is this issue crosses over religious lines. You are bringing it into my house of worship, and on a social level, you are indeed forcing me to accept it as natural and normal. Otherwise, I face consequences.

(and yes, I realize marriages don't have to be conducted at church, but obviously there are gay couples out there who want a church ceremony)

Every single retort you made shows your ignorance and that you indeed use your religion to judge and discriminate against gays. And it is not a lifestyle and it is not a choice. It is so monotanous to repeat to bigots this, but they must at some point have their fingers out of their ears. But your right to religion does not give you the right to discriminate, regardless of your religion. I do not see Jews going around trying to force their beliefs upon the overall population, nor many of the eastern religions, but it seems to be a christian obsession to force EVERYONE to bow to their knees and obey their god or go to hell.

[Fuselage]

Originally Posted by txdave35

I can say the same thing about people who support gay marriage. You are pushing YOUR belief on the general population. The intolerance and even downright hatred shown towards Christians means you are a bigot.

You can say that all you want but it doesn't make any sense no matter how often you repeat it:

Consequences of keeping homosexual marriage illegal:

Heterosexuals: None; Homosexuals: Can't marry person they love.

Consequences of making homosexual marriage legal:

Heterosexuals: None; Homosexuals: Can marry the person they love.

[Tundra Boy]

Originally Posted by TriMT7

And yet you do not deny that you're sex=morality isn't sourced from whatever religion you adhere to.


Amazing, huh?


BTW, no need to "sign" your posts. We can tell who is writing.

Sorry sir, I've already dismissed you. But, you really do need to relax, notice how hard you are typing on the keyboard? Tension, and it's not healthy.



Tb


...must resist the urge to be pulled down to the level of replying further. salut to all.

[Globe199]

Originally Posted by jjrose

And there are millions of churches that are perfectly willing to have ceremonies for same sex couples. YOUR church doesn't have to.

It's been commented to death in countless other threads, but I think this is a key piece of this puzzle. It's not enough for them to say that their church isn't required to perform ceremonies. What they really want is for a gay couple to show up at their church, asking for a ceremony, and be turned away. They want to be the one to slam the door in their faces.

Kind of a "make my day" situation.

[TheDragonslayer]

Originally Posted by Tundra Boy

Sorry sir, I've already dismissed you. But, you really do need to relax, notice how hard you are typing on the keyboard? Tension, and it's not healthy.



Tb


...must resist the urge to be pulled down to the level of replying further. salut to all.

Adios, nino.

[bUU]

Originally Posted by Tundra Boy

I give what is owed..tolerance

Define what you mean by tolerance, and what you believe is not included in it.

Originally Posted by Tundra Boy

But what seems to be demanded of me is..validation

Again, define what you mean by validation, and what specific actions and attitudes you claim are included in it.

Originally Posted by Tundra Boy

So please, go live your life as you want, just don't be butt hurt (no pun) that I have my own opinion and it is at odds with yours.

I don't care that you have different opinions - I like that actually - I care about your conduct in society.

[txdave35]

Originally Posted by TriMT7

Why on earth do you think your CHOSEN BELIEF SYSTEM trumps inherent characteristics of a person's being?

Why should your CHOSEN beliefs be given more deference?


We don't allow Voodoo adherents to massacre goats and perform all the rituals they would like. We don't allow Muslims to do Honor Killings or to practice Sharia to the letter.

Why do you think your beliefs and rights should trump mine?