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Old 10-02-2013, 07:42 PM
1,026 posts, read 1,142,660 times
Reputation: 1794


No wonder some people are threatened by same sex marriage. Their own marriages are apparently based only on sex and the ability to have children because they think those things are what makes a marriage.

My marriage is based on love, respect, and happiness.
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:46 PM
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,296 posts, read 35,792,837 times
Reputation: 13738
Originally Posted by txdave35 View Post
So God or evolution only intended heterosexuals to reproduce? Makes no sense to me.
God doesn't exist and evolution is not perfect...makes sense to me.
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:47 PM
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,296 posts, read 35,792,837 times
Reputation: 13738
Originally Posted by txdave35 View Post
Yeah sure, just make them give up their career and cause people to lose their jobs so the poor gay couple doesn't have to walk down the street to another bakery.

And why do your beliefs get to determine the law of the land?
Anti discrimination laws protect everyone....Even you.
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:48 PM
3,124 posts, read 4,738,618 times
Reputation: 1955
Reading these threads I've gleaned that it's hard to argue with the anti-gay group because they keep firing off in a million different and unrelated directions. No wonder they've lost so much ground in the debate, not that I would have wanted them to win.

I really feel that most of it comes from ignorance and good old fashion human ego. Most of them don't "hate" gay people, but lack understanding and/or are overpowered by their own need to designate somethings or someones as "less than" in a misdirected attempt at self esteem building. Sadly, the ones that truly do "hate" spread lies that the easily led aforementioned people naively believe (easily believed because it reinforces their false sense of superiority that they yearn to build and maintain). Usually, when faced with an actual loved one who is gay, they come to understand and let go a bit.
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Old 10-02-2013, 08:02 PM
1,519 posts, read 1,189,090 times
Reputation: 897
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
My beliefs are the constitution. You know, the document that is the supreme law of the land?

Anti discrimination laws are perfectly constitutional. Basing laws on your religious beliefs, however, is not.
That is, apparently, an incredibly difficult concept to grasp...
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Old 10-02-2013, 08:23 PM
Location: Pittsburgh
1,035 posts, read 1,480,542 times
Reputation: 774
Originally Posted by Taratova View Post
Of course.. the church has their stand but society has a stand too.. even the unbelievers believe in morality and many non religious people do not see gay marriage as acceptable.. they have rights under the Constitution too.

After society relents to gay marriage , the gays will march for another right as that is their quest. They will not rest at gay marriage.

Society will fall as this is expected.. we relive our history. Man is driven by evil as man has a propensity to it. Nothing new under the sun.
My goodness, I'd hate to read what you would have wrote, had you had a keyboard back in the days of the African American civil rights movement! They won't stop at marriage, they'll keep fighting for more...

You've thrown around the term "norm" a bit much. Tell me, what is the norm? Also, you seem to think marriage only happens in a church. How do you feel about heterosexual atheists receiving a marriage license? Should they not use the term marriage either? What about Jews? They aren't Christians, but they receive marriage licenses. Keyword: license. Baptism is strictly a religious/church doing. The government does not issue special incentives for baptized individuals. What numerous people like yourself can't do, is to take the church out of marriage, since it isn't required. You hear "gay marriage" and instantly think of two people of the same sex standing in your church and having a CEREMONY. That's all it is, the actual LICENSE comes from the government. With that said, the goal here is for same sex couples to be seen as equal in the eyes of the GOVERNMENT, not your church. Make sense?

Also, this antiquated idea that marriage is for a man and a woman to come together and reproduce is literally grade school level unintelligent. What about a couple past their reproduction days who get married? Do they not count? How about a couple of any age who are physically UNABLE to reproduce due to health reasons? COME ON...if you're going to argue, cover all your possibilities here.

As I pointed out to txdave a while back, interracial marriage in some southern states was not legalized until 1967. That's a short time ago, when you think about it. My Mom just graduated from high school. There are still people today who don't agree with marrying outside a person's own race. But guess what, ask the most socially backward redneck if a black guy marrying a white girl has NEGATIVELY effected his marriage--he won't be able to muster up any form of logical response. So once again, I challenge YOU to poll residents of states where same-sex marriage is already legal and ask them how same-sex marriage has personally, negatively effected them. Oh and FYI, there are absolutely Bible verses out there that can be interpreted to mean that interracial marriage is also not "ok."
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:20 PM
Location: Deep Dirty South
5,190 posts, read 5,082,667 times
Reputation: 3860
Originally Posted by txdave35 View Post
The point is there shouldn't be ANY consequences.
And it's fine for you to feel that way. The legal reality (in some places) is different, however.

I'd like to ask again: do you believe we should get rid of ALL anti-discrimination laws?

Back in the day, people used The Bible to promote bigotry and discrimination against interracial couples. The mixing of races was, to them, a moral issue. Leaving aside the old "skin color ain't the same as sexual preference!" argument, the mixing of races was a moral belief for these people. And there are yet people who believe this (though fortunately only a few fringe flakes.)

Do you believe they should have the right to refuse service to a couple just because they are interracial?

If you do, that's fine. I'm just trying to get a reading because you have refused over and again to actually respond to this.

People in some regions used to believe left-handed people were evil, or subject to evil. If a person closed his shop to any left-handed customer and refused to do business with them because it was morally repugnant to them and against their beliefs, do you think they should have the right to do so, and the left-handers have no recourse other than to take their business elsewhere?

Again, if you believe this, or believe Muslim cabbies should be allowed to refuse service to Jews, etc., etc. that's fine. That's your belief and your opinion. I'm not even saying you'd be wrong to hold that belief.

But as extreme as these examples may sound, bear with me:

I'd like to know how you would react and feel if you were refused service somewhere simply because you are a Christian? (Incidentally, this has never happened ever anywhere in the United States of course.)

You may say you would just shrug your shoulders and think "Man that guy's a jerkface!" Take your business elsewhere and not cause a stink.

And maybe you would, and that's pretty much what I'd do (at least I think that's how I'd react.)

But now imagine that other Christians were increasingly running into situations where a store owner refuses them service because due to some belief or other, they felt it morally wrong to conduct business with Christians. Would that get your hackles up enough to kick up a fuss? Maybe start talking about the incident publicly, attract media attention, etc.?

Now imagine if Christians were legally barred from, say, buying any products containing egg products.

What then? Would you just put up your hands and say "Well, that's their belief system."

If a law was passed preventing Christians from legally playing golf or owning guns or marrying other Christians...you would just roll over?

Yet this is exactly, precisely the kind of thing you yourself endorse: preventing a certain segment of the population of free American citizens from having equal access to freedoms, rights and privileges that you and pretty much any other consenting adult couple have, based solely on your personal sense of morality.

I don't mean to harangue; I just hope you might wipe the scales away from your eyes. At least try to see it from the other side of things.

Homosexuality, homosexuals, same sex marriages--none of these things really need impact your life in any way. There's really no more reason for you to get hung up on it than something like interracial couples, left-handed people, etc. You can feel about it however you wish, just as you would be free to think the same of interracial couples, etc.

That doesn't mean you get to write the laws, or use your preferred belief system to dictate that other free adults in this society don't get to do things you personally feel are icky, sinful, or otherwise offensive simply because of your personal beliefs.
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:29 PM
Location: Deep Dirty South
5,190 posts, read 5,082,667 times
Reputation: 3860
Originally Posted by Taratova

Society will fall as this is expected...
Sheesh. Come on, Melodramatic Maisie. You are essentially saying:

"Allowing same sex marriage will result in the fall of society."


Really going with that one?

See, I think hate, fear, ignorance and bigotry are far more likely to be destructive and lead us to be ever more divisive and intolerant.

Times are hard, life is weird and we're all in this together.
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:33 PM
Location: Iowa, USA
6,542 posts, read 3,902,680 times
Reputation: 3805
I would like to point out that Jesus had two dads; he turned out fine.
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:59 PM
Location: Deep Dirty South
5,190 posts, read 5,082,667 times
Reputation: 3860
Originally Posted by TheDusty View Post
I would like to point out that Jesus had two dads; he turned out fine.
Well played.
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