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Old 09-07-2013, 11:36 AM
 
14,917 posts, read 12,647,164 times
Reputation: 4828

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy View Post

But most, if not all, truly religious people who understand their religions (and I mean REAL religions, not "do whatever you feel like doing as long as you're not infringing upon anyone else's rights" religions like Unitarian Universalism or Wicca) believe that deviate sexual orientations are chosen rather than inborn. Christians, at least, also believe that it's not always us choosing God - God chooses us. Therefore, our religious affiliation is often not as much "our choice" as you'd think.
Are you ****ing kidding? Sexuality is a choice, but religion is inborn? That's the most absurd thing I have every heard in my entire life.
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Old 09-07-2013, 11:47 AM
 
1,519 posts, read 1,189,156 times
Reputation: 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
Are you ****ing kidding? Sexuality is a choice, but religion is inborn? That's the most absurd thing I have every heard in my entire life.
It's futile. This person is so far steeped in his/her ideology that they can no longer distinguish right from wrong, left from right, up from down, fair from unfair, rational from irrational. There is only ONE thing that matters: His understanding of the world. Not reality, not other people. Look at his posting history: He is right, he is ethical, he is moral, he is rational, he has knowledge - all in absolutes. All others are clearly excluded from such virtues.

The ironic thing is that this person thinks they are Christian and that one way to show it to the world (which, in itself is not Christian) is to exhibit some of the least Christian behaviors like despise thy neighbor and elevating himself above others.

It's amazing but quite common amongst those with this particular delusional pathology.

Don't argue. Feel sad that this person has become so incredibly lost and blind to the world around them.
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Old 09-07-2013, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Montreal, Quebec
15,084 posts, read 13,745,886 times
Reputation: 9779
Quote:

believe that deviate sexual orientations are chosen rather than inborn.
Christians, at least, also believe that it's not always us choosing God - God
chooses us. Therefore, our religious affiliation is often not as much "our
choice" as you'd think.
What utter nonsense!
So, the reason I'm an atheist is because God didn't choose me?
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Old 09-07-2013, 11:57 AM
 
14,917 posts, read 12,647,164 times
Reputation: 4828
Quote:
Originally Posted by weltschmerz View Post
What utter nonsense!
So, the reason I'm an atheist is because God didn't choose me?
You too aren't a member of the Elect?
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Old 09-07-2013, 12:07 PM
bUU
 
Location: Florida
12,077 posts, read 10,199,888 times
Reputation: 8792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuselage View Post
Feel sad that this person has become so incredibly lost and blind to the world around them.
This makes no sense to me. If someone has adopted deceptions as the foundation of the truth of their world, then that doesn't necessarily adversely impact them, but rather adversely impacts everyone else, who interacts with them.
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Old 09-07-2013, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Calgary, AB
3,401 posts, read 2,198,357 times
Reputation: 1072
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy View Post
So your argument is that they were REQUIRED BY LAW to serve gay couples even though that was in violation of their religious beliefs. I don't know if that's true but let's assume for the sake of argument that it is true.

When "THE LAW" requires you to violate your religious beliefs in order to make a living, this is a major problem. I don't know what your religion is but let's assume you're atheist, because you're constantly attacking my Christian beliefs. Suppose, in order to make a living, you were REQUIRED BY LAW to pray to the Lord Jesus Christ out loud every day in front of an official so that it could be verified that you do so... and failure to do so would result in your business being shut down. Suppose you were REQUIRED BY LAW to close your business on the major Jewish holidays, which, due to their number and length, would guarantee you a significant loss of income... and failure to do so would result in your business being shut down. Suppose you were a restaurateur and you were REQUIRED to refuse food service according to the laws of Islam during the holy month of Ramadan and failure to do so would subject you to the full penalty of Sharia law (which is probably much worse than a mere shutting down of your business). It goes on and on. If you did not follow THE LAW, you would be sued out of existence or shut down by the state.

Now all of a sudden your argument smells a bit different, doesn't it?
Not really, because that isn't anyone's argument. You made all that stuff up. I can't imagine where you came up with the idea people were arguing in favour of mandatory observation of religious rituals.

Anyway, there's nothing in any Christian doctrine that mandates not doing business with gay people. Having to obey the law does not go against religious beliefs. It might go against personal beliefs, and the personal believer might use his religion to justify his personal beliefs, but he is not being stopped from practicing his religion in any way.

Has it occurred to you that most business owners don't know the sexual orientation of their customers one way or the other? I bet someone like you is having to take money from a gay person in exchange for goods and services right now. And they don't even know it. Man, those homosexuals with their agenda are devious, not even identifying themselves so others will know to discriminate against them. Insidious, I tells ya.

Quote:
Surely you support the movement that originated in the 1950's, to ban prayer from schools and governmental facilities, on the grounds that it interferes with freedom of religious expression for non-Christians and atheists.
We stopped saying the Lord's Prayer in school every morning when I was in the fourth grade, so that would be 1981. At the time, I just thought it was because the school thought we nine- and ten year old kids were old enough that we could put away such childish things.

I'm willing to bet anyone in a school or government facility can pray just as hard as they like. The school or government facility making prayer part of its daily routine because it's a Christian nation and it's a Christian government, though, well let's not be having any of that.
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Old 09-07-2013, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Montreal, Quebec
15,084 posts, read 13,745,886 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
You too aren't a member of the Elect?
Well, I guess not. I'm clearly hellbound. So much for free will.
I wasn't chosen.
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Old 09-07-2013, 12:20 PM
 
1,519 posts, read 1,189,156 times
Reputation: 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
This makes no sense to me. If someone has adopted deceptions as the foundation of the truth of their world, then that doesn't necessarily adversely impact them, but rather adversely impacts everyone else, who interacts with them.
Indeed. I feel sad every time I hear of a person who has gotten so lost that all they can do is try to make other people's lives miserable - for no rational reason.

Perhaps you don't feel sad - but I do. To me, that person is so consumed by their negative ideology that they cannot possibly live a happy life. I don't know if Romani chose this stance or if he was indoctrinated/brainwashed. What I do know is that his stance is not an adaptive one - if one's goal is the blanket condemnation of an entire demographic (i.e., the discrimination of that group), one cannot possibly be a well-balanced human being. For that, I feel sad - not for the fact that he is not allowed to live out his despicable fantasies or the anguish he suffers because of it. Quite contrary - if you are so driven by irrational fear and/or hatred, you get what you have coming.
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Old 09-07-2013, 12:26 PM
 
1,519 posts, read 1,189,156 times
Reputation: 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by weltschmerz View Post
Well, I guess not. I'm clearly hellbound. So much for free will.
I wasn't chosen.
Party at my fire pit tonight. Bring the booze and the pitch forks and let the fornication begin.

Fruck, I wasn't chosen, either. Stupid god - I could have been hanging out with the likes of Jesse Helms tonight. Ah, what good times those would have been.
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Old 09-07-2013, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Wilsonville, OR
1,262 posts, read 2,076,113 times
Reputation: 2358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuselage View Post
Indeed. I feel sad every time I hear of a person who has gotten so lost that all they can do is try to make other people's lives miserable - for no rational reason.

Perhaps you don't feel sad - but I do. To me, that person is so consumed by their negative ideology that they cannot possibly live a happy life. I don't know if Romani chose this stance or if he was indoctrinated/brainwashed. What I do know is that his stance is not an adaptive one - if one's goal is the blanket condemnation of an entire demographic (i.e., the discrimination of that group), one cannot possibly be a well-balanced human being. For that, I feel sad - not for the fact that he is not allowed to live out his despicable fantasies or the anguish he suffers because of it. Quite contrary - if you are so driven by irrational fear and/or hatred, you get what you have coming.
I can't prop you right now, so I will reply with my agreement instead.

I too feel sadness when I think of people like our friend Romani here. I also feel angry; angry that what could have been a perfectly kind and decent human was exposed to environments and beliefs that caused them to become... twisted. They simply are not functioning correctly. They have been warped psychologically and can no longer properly think for themselves, be objective, or make rational decisions. The worst part is many of these religions discourage questioning and introspection, causing already susceptible victims to lose the ability to examine their beliefs and eventually their own motivations.

Eventually it works its way into their minds and integrates so completely that it stops being belief and becomes an assumed fact-of-reality.
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