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Old 08-30-2013, 02:47 PM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
10,581 posts, read 9,785,325 times
Reputation: 4174

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Updated chart:



The purpose of my posting the chart above, is to suggest that blacks are not incapable or lazy; but rather, that they have allowed themselves to be duped by the race-baiters and poverty pimps who have been so prominent in our society, even while genuinely helpful people worked hard to improve things.

"Welfare" was implemented in the 1960s, and developed into a program where poor people got paid more if they had no spouse present to help support them; and got paid more if they had more children. All races were eligible for the program, of course, but blacks with their far-lower incomes were qualified for far more payments.

Cold arithmetic made it plain that their incomes would increase more, if they kicked out the husband of the family, also if they had as many children as possible. Probably few actual "kicking-outs" happened, but as the stress and strain of family life in poverty continued, the impetus for the father to say around, considerably lessened.

That, plus a good dose of "Whitey owes you for the horrors of slavery a hundred years ago and the racism of today" and "Whitey is in charge here, here's your chance to stick it to him" from the above-mentioned race hustlers and poverty pimps, combined to make it very tempting for poor women (especially poor black women) to have lots of children while living at home with no job and without a husband present.

The result was predictable (by anyone not wearing liberal rose-colored blinders): more and more children were born to jobless single black women, to be raised with no responsible father around.

This was not the only cause for this disaster, but I suggest it is one of the major causes.
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Old 08-30-2013, 02:57 PM
 
7,359 posts, read 5,464,526 times
Reputation: 3142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
Said another way, just where should African Americans be today, given that for over 300 years, they were oppressed in this nation?
There is no particular place where they "should" be. That would require some sort of objective standard against which they could be measured. No such standard exists.

However, where they could be is a lot better of than where they actually are.
Quote:
Do you think they have underperformed in their rise from oppression?
Yes, I do. Taken as individuals you have black people all the way from being President of the United States down to being convicted serial killers. But as a group, they shouldn't have a 73% illegitimacy rate, they shouldn't be ten times more likely to commit violent crime than other races, and they shouldn't be significantly underperforming academically.

Note that I mentioned nothing economic there. You can't control whether or not someone hires you. It's going to take time to fully integrate into the middle class. However, nobody forces a 73% illegitimacy rate. That's cultural within a community. And prior to the civil rights movement blacks had a higher percentage of stable two parent families than whites did. So racism does not account for that.
Quote:
I ask because there seem to be this implicit assumption that others have "been there and done that", in regards to what blacks have experienced, yet, they have moved to equality by now.
That's one thing I have heard from fellow conservatives and I reject it. While many groups have been oppressed in America, no group suffered the massive degree of oppression that blacks did.

There is, however, one semi-related thing that is notable. Black immigrants to America perform at a statistically significantly higher rate than native born blacks do. This does not go to show that blacks should be performing better compared to other minorities. But it absolutely does go to show that blacks could be performing better than they are.
Quote:
If one does not imply that, then usually what is implied is that somehow where blacks are as a people, should be much better.....but based upon what criteria? Who has established the benchmark for comparison and is the situation the same in degree and or kind?
As I said earlier, one thing you can do is look at non-economic factors. Racism doesn't prevent a man from raising his children. Racism doesn't force a kid to drop out of high shool. These are cultural factors which have a major impact on the future success of an individual which are in no way caused by past oppression or present racism. They are individual choices people make. You can't control whether a company hires a white candidate for a job instead of you, but you can control whether or not you abandon your child if you're a man or whether you bear a child with no means of supporting it if you're a woman. That is true whether you are white, black, brown, yellow, or red.
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:08 PM
 
13,806 posts, read 9,709,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
my issue isnt the struggle, in fact it should have been good for the black community, instead it has become an anchor. the black community should have risen above the struggle by now, and be a shinning example of what oppressed people around the world can accomplish given the right attitude, and proper effort. instead we have a voting block that votes for the promise of free stuff, not freedom. and dont forget that after the civil war, the armed forces in this country were in fact integrated, until woodrow wilson won the presidency, after that it took until 1948 for them to be reintegrated again. granted wilson was an openly racist president, but the damage was done there as well. and then we got the welfare state. welfare was originally set up as a hand up after you got knocked down in life. it was a temporary thing. but it has been made permanent by the powers that be because they want the people dependent on big government, and the poor in general, and minorities in particular, are eating it up.
If you believe that blacks SHOULD have....what is that based upon? I mean..... I wish blacks had of......but blacks are only human. If I ask you if humans should have colonized Mars by now...what would be your response. What would I have to base that upon?
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:14 PM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,847,766 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
If you believe that blacks SHOULD have....what is that based upon? mean I wish blacks had of......but blacks are only human. If I ask you if humans should have colonized Mars by now...what would be your response. What would I have to base that upon?
that is based on all the opportunities that have been presented to the black community that they havent taken advantage of. and normally when people struggle to get what they want, they dont then sit back and say now give me everything, they continue to push forward, and aim higher. and the black community as a whole has not done that.

as for the mars thing, thats rubbish and you know it. the technologies are not yet available, and the money isnt available to go for such an endeavor. the moon is only 250,000 miles away, mars is closer to 34,000,000 miles at its closest point. the moon is like four days away, mars is closer to six months, again at its closest point.
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Suffolk, Va
3,027 posts, read 2,520,964 times
Reputation: 1964
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
Said another way, just where should African Americans be today, given that for over 300 years, they were oppressed in this nation? Do you think they have underperformed in their rise from oppression? I ask because there seem to be this implicit assumption that others have "been there and done that", in regards to what blacks have experienced, yet, they have moved to equality by now. If one does not imply that, then usually what is implied is that somehow where blacks are as a people, should be much better.....but based upon what criteria? Who has established the benchmark for comparison and is the situation the same in degree and or kind?
we're certainly doing better than any other group in the black African diaspora. look at brazil, for an example of what I'm talking about. the reason why black Americans do better than black Brazilians is because we're a united group that encompasses many backgrounds and skin tones. in many countries where there are people of black African ancestry, they do themselves a disservice by breaking up into smaller sub groups, thereby diminishing their political power. black americans have our internal issues, but politically, we are united.

but, getting back to this topic specifically, I guess a good way to measure our progress as a people is to compare ourselves to other black African descended people with similar history. compared to them we are doing very well. but, remember, we are Americans not Brazilians or Africans. we should not be satisfied until our progress is equal to that of other Americans.
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:35 PM
 
13,806 posts, read 9,709,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
that is based on all the opportunities that have been presented to the black community that they havent taken advantage of. and normally when people struggle to get what they want, they dont then sit back and say now give me everything, they continue to push forward, and aim higher. and the black community as a whole has not done that.

as for the mars thing, thats rubbish and you know it. the technologies are not yet available, and the money isnt available to go for such an endeavor. the moon is only 250,000 miles away, mars is closer to 34,000,000 miles at its closest point. the moon is like four days away, mars is closer to six months, again at its closest point.
But there are opportunities out there that whites have not taken advantage of and I dare say that there are opportunities out there that you have not taken advantage of either. Can some people be better positioned to take advantage of opportunities than others? What argument would the white upper class have for the white middle class in regards to why the white middle class have not taken advantage of the opportunities that could have made them upper class? Why are not middle class whites upper class whites? Is it because they are lazier, not as smart, more irresponsible and not willing to take advantage of opportunities? Are Middle Class whites inferior to upper class whites in natural ability....or is something else the reason that separates the white classes?
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,714 posts, read 31,180,231 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiRob View Post
Who says it's only the "black" families breaking down when we have a 50% Divorce rate in the US? Or do you just assume that it's only blacks who are getting divorced?
I didn't say anything about divorce. I talked about children raised in single parent households. The rate for whites and asians is dramatically lower (see some of the links above). I suggest marriage per se is not the primary issue. It is that too many black children are raised by a single parent, usually the mother, who struggles to raise her children and make ends meet.
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:38 PM
 
13,806 posts, read 9,709,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Californian34 View Post
we're certainly doing better than any other group in the black African diaspora. look at brazil, for an example of what I'm talking about. the reason why black Americans do better than black Brazilians is because we're a united group that encompasses many backgrounds and skin tones. in many countries where there are people of black African ancestry, they do themselves a disservice by breaking up into smaller sub groups, thereby diminishing their political power. black americans have our internal issues, but politically, we are united.

but, getting back to this topic specifically, I guess a good way to measure our progress as a people is to compare ourselves to other black African descended people with similar history. compared to them we are doing very well. but, remember, we are Americans not Brazilians or Africans. we should not be satisfied until our progress is equal to that of other Americans.
I agree. I do not think that the variable is humanity, but rather, circumstance. I believe that given the same circumstance, all races would likely end up in the same situation. If a person does not fundamentally believe this, in regards to socioeconomic, then they are prime suspects in regards racism.
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:41 PM
 
20,948 posts, read 19,054,479 times
Reputation: 10270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
Said another way, just where should African Americans be today, given that for over 300 years, they were oppressed in this nation? Do you think they have underperformed in their rise from oppression? I ask because there seem to be this implicit assumption that others have "been there and done that", in regards to what blacks have experienced, yet, they have moved to equality by now. If one does not imply that, then usually what is implied is that somehow where blacks are as a people, should be much better.....but based upon what criteria? Who has established the benchmark for comparison and is the situation the same in degree and or kind?
They were only slaves in OUR country for 80 years.

"The soft bigotry of low expectations" has held most of them back from their full potential.
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:45 PM
 
13,806 posts, read 9,709,682 times
Reputation: 5243
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
They were only slaves in OUR country for 80 years.

"The soft bigotry of low expectations" has held most of them back from their full potential.
What is the origins of low expectations? Is not treating people as inferior and propagating the doctrine of their inferiority setting "low expectations"?
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