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I don't want to pay for the military. It protects me from nothing. I derive no benefit from it, therefore I demand that you stop stealing from my wallet to pay for it.
It's akin to your second amendment conundrum now. You have such a proliferation of weapons in your society now that to even suggest attempting to reduce them would result in warfare. You now have no choice but to continue to allow their further proliferation; that's the reality of today.
Where you have a significant segment of your population totally dependant upon government largesse; to try and eradicate that dependancy would also result in warfare of a different kind. You have no choice now but to continue down the road of 50% of you dragging the other 50% along like a millstone around your neck. To suggest voting as a way of changing that is to ignore the 50% or more who would vote to maintain it.
In short, your political structure is now hamstrung on the voting teeter totter you encouraged by allowing lobbyists and through voting your self interest.
You're F***ED!
Most likely.
In what country do you live?
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmeraldCityWanderer
That's a terrible idea.
Did Bush run on invading Afganistan? It wasn't on the radar till two planes slammed into the World Trade Center.
How can you make a decision that you want to pay for something you don't know will happen when you cast your vote?
Simple. When they vote in such crap after being elected, the people who would pay for it (but don't want to pay for it) can hold a referendum / recall to kick those politicians out of office and overturn their decision. The laws governing such referenda or recalls would be very simple and not subject to judicial review. If politicians make a decision that is not representative of the will and desire of the majority of the people whom they represent, they do not deserve to be in office. If the system were changed such that people who voted for [whomever] had to shoulder the cost of that person's legislative decisions, we'd see many more recalls and a lot less ignorant voters. If the recall failed and the politician remained in office, the people who voted for him would pay for his decisions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mazerunner
Riiiight. So unemployed people exclusively are supposed to pay for unemployment benefits, people living below the poverty line exclusively are supposed to pay for Medicaid, and disabled military veterans exclusively are supposed to pay for VA benefits. It makes perfect sense!
No. You don't get it at all, from the appearance of things.
People who support the notion of unemployment benefits for the unemployed are to pay for those unemployment benefits. (Conversely, people who believe that the unemployed should either take whatever job they can get - rather than living on fat government checks until their perfect job comes around - or that they should receive their charity from family / friends / private institutions, would not have to pay for these unemployment benefits.)
People who support universal health care for the poor would pay for Medicaid. The rest of us who believe that medical care is a privilege, not a right, would not. If medical care were not guaranteed by the government, you would see a lot less smoking, drinking, drug use, obesity, daredevil stunt undertaking, acceptance of genetically modified and processed crap foods, etc. People would actually take responsibility for themselves if there was no safety net... or they would get sick or die from the results of their irresponsibility. For some, that's a desired end - so who are we to infringe upon their freedom to remove themselves from the gene pool? For others, it would be a deterrent to living stupidly, which could only improve society. Simple example for you. I don't smoke, but let's pretend I do. For decades, I ignore the surgeon general's warnings and all other information out there telling me what cigarette smoking is going to do to me. I end up with lung cancer and heart disease as a result of smoking and cannot afford to pay the medical bills associated therewith. Why should YOU have to pay for my medical care, even in part, when I was the stupid one who ignored all of the warnings and refused to be responsible for myself?
VA benefits should be paid for by those of us who support the notion. I think most people, of all political leanings would support benefits for veterans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shiftymh
How are you going to figure out who voted for who, genius?
A list of people who voted against Obama would be every liberal's wet dream.
You honestly think this couldn't be determined? You honestly think this isn't already in the works? We do have voter registration with stated party affiliation, at least... that's close enough. I think it's a simple conclusion that >90% of people who are registered Republicans voted for someone other than Obama.
Libs would love a list of people who voted against Obama so that they could unleash the IRS on every last one of 'em... but what's good for the goose is good for the gander. The tables can very easily be turned. I read an article recently which stated that the liberals could end up eating their own words very easily if the next elected President is a conservative, who takes everything Obama did for the liberal cause and against the conservative cause, and turns it around to use those same powers, strategies, and tactics for the conservative cause and against the liberal cause. That'd be glorious revenge, for sure. (Besides, if it came out that the libs turned the IRS on people who voted against Obama, I guarantee you that no liberal politician would be elected for at least a generation. That is a transgression which is not soon forgotten. It was enough of a scandal that they turned the IRS against conservative organizations. Make it human by turning the IRS against people and you've screwed your party for a long time.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back to NE
Like their is an itemizer app tax payers can use on their i-phones to decide which budget items they want to support.
You have to admit, that'd be awesome. The alternative is the tyranny of being forced to support budget items you despise. Which do you prefer? Tyranny or freedom?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cometclear
I don't want to pay for the military. It protects me from nothing. I derive no benefit from it, therefore I demand that you stop stealing from my wallet to pay for it.
And I say you should have the freedom and the ability to remove yourself from the requirement of paying for the military if such is your desire, without punishment nor retribution. Of course, that would also mean that you would lose military protection, whatever that would entail. No National Guard rescue nor protection in the event of a natural disaster, at least. Granted, this would be extremely difficult to implement, but do you place higher value on the ease of tyranny or the difficulty of freedom?
It's akin to your second amendment conundrum now. You have such a proliferation of weapons in your society now that to even suggest attempting to reduce them would result in warfare. You now have no choice but to continue to allow their further proliferation; that's the reality of today.
Where you have a significant segment of your population totally dependant upon government largesse; to try and eradicate that dependancy would also result in warfare of a different kind. You have no choice now but to continue down the road of 50% of you dragging the other 50% along like a millstone around your neck. To suggest voting as a way of changing that is to ignore the 50% or more who would vote to maintain it.
In short, your political structure is now hamstrung on the voting teeter totter you encouraged by allowing lobbyists and through voting your self interest.
I'm finally going to come out and say it. I'm sick and tired of other people causing me to have to pay for things that I don't want. If that's not tyranny, or at least the rape of my freedom, I don't know what is.
So I have a simple solution.
If you voted for Obama or any of the Senators or Representatives who voted in favor of Obamacare, YOU pay for Obamacare. We all benefit, since that's what YOU wanted, but the extra cost above what people are currently paying for health care is borne by YOU.
If we go to war against Syria and you voted for any of the politicians who approved it, YOU get higher taxes to pay for it. Those who never wanted those politicians in office don't have to suffer for the garbage they dump on America.
This is the same for conservatives as well. For example, if you voted for the people who approved war against Iraq and Afghanistan, YOU pay for that war.
If you want to stop paying for this stuff, vote against the politicians who approved it. As soon as you officially log a vote against those people, you are relieved from the responsibility of paying for [whatever]. If you want to stop paying for it earlier on, sign onto a successful recall petition which removes that politician from office.
I guarantee you that such a policy would return a significant level of fiscal responsibility to America. When we get over the "it's okay, someone else will pay for this" mentality, we can achieve fiscal responsibility.
That's absolutely ridiculous. Some won't want to pay for healthcare, or unemployment or infrastructure or military or the FDA or the EPA or police or railroads or fire, etc. Say I don't want my taxes going for public transit. I'll be prohibited from taking the bus? They'll have security at every bus stop, checking paperwork and making sure I don't get on?
Most likely.
No. You don't get it at all, from the appearance of things.
People who support the notion of unemployment benefits for the unemployed are to pay for those unemployment benefits. (Conversely, people who believe that the unemployed should either take whatever job they can get - rather than living on fat government checks until their perfect job comes around - or that they should receive their charity from family / friends / private institutions, would not have to pay for these unemployment benefits.)
People who support universal health care for the poor would pay for Medicaid. The rest of us who believe that medical care is a privilege, not a right, would not. If medical care were not guaranteed by the government, you would see a lot less smoking, drinking, drug use, obesity, daredevil stunt undertaking, acceptance of genetically modified and processed crap foods, etc. People would actually take responsibility for themselves if there was no safety net... or they would get sick or die from the results of their irresponsibility. For some, that's a desired end - so who are we to infringe upon their freedom to remove themselves from the gene pool? For others, it would be a deterrent to living stupidly, which could only improve society. Simple example for you. I don't smoke, but let's pretend I do. For decades, I ignore the surgeon general's warnings and all other information out there telling me what cigarette smoking is going to do to me. I end up with lung cancer and heart disease as a result of smoking and cannot afford to pay the medical bills associated therewith. Why should YOU have to pay for my medical care, even in part, when I was the stupid one who ignored all of the warnings and refused to be responsible for myself?
VA benefits should be paid for by those of us who support the notion. I think most people, of all political leanings would support benefits for veterans.
Well, I believe in the concept of the public good. For example, I have no kids in school, so I derive no benefit from financing public schools through my property taxes. But I believe that as a resident of my community, I have a responsibility to contribute to its wellbeing. That's not being a victim of "tyranny." That's the price of living in a civilized society where people have a certain level of responsibility to each other.
I'm finally going to come out and say it. I'm sick and tired of other people causing me to have to pay for things that I don't want. If that's not tyranny, or at least the rape of my freedom, I don't know what is.
So I have a simple solution.
If you voted for Obama or any of the Senators or Representatives who voted in favor of Obamacare, YOU pay for Obamacare. We all benefit, since that's what YOU wanted, but the extra cost above what people are currently paying for health care is borne by YOU.
If we go to war against Syria and you voted for any of the politicians who approved it, YOU get higher taxes to pay for it. Those who never wanted those politicians in office don't have to suffer for the garbage they dump on America.
This is the same for conservatives as well. For example, if you voted for the people who approved war against Iraq and Afghanistan, YOU pay for that war.
If you want to stop paying for this stuff, vote against the politicians who approved it. As soon as you officially log a vote against those people, you are relieved from the responsibility of paying for [whatever]. If you want to stop paying for it earlier on, sign onto a successful recall petition which removes that politician from office.
I guarantee you that such a policy would return a significant level of fiscal responsibility to America. When we get over the "it's okay, someone else will pay for this" mentality, we can achieve fiscal responsibility.
The Kaiser Family Foundation analysis of what we know so far (pdf) about premiums under Obamacare is that "While premiums will vary significantly across the country, they are generally lower than expected." In an alternative universe, conservatives would be celebrating this good news as a vindication of their views. See, the Heritage Foundation — which actually developed the original version of this plan! — was right! You don’t need single-payer, just a properly set up market system. (For the record, I believe that single-payer would be better and cheaper, and it’s still a goal we should seek).
But in the universe that we have, anything Obama is bad, according to conservatives.
as far as, "other people causing you to have to pay for things that I don't want," you are centuries too late with that gripe. Government has been forcing people to pay for roads and parks for the common good well before the right-wing assigned everything they don't like to Obama.
There is a cost to living in a civilized society whether you like it or not. I say pay for an island and live there alone if it bother you so much. It's win-win.
I'm finally going to come out and say it. I'm sick and tired of other people causing me to have to pay for things that I don't want. If that's not tyranny, or at least the rape of my freedom, I don't know what is.
I want my money back that was spent to pave the road in front of your house. I don't use it; why should I pay for it?
I believe a lot more goes to businesses than people.
How do you want to address that issue?
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