Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
thats not really how it would work. the federal government isnt going to suddenly announce that they will take everyone's gun. they will start by finding ways to deny applicants and delay application processing to minimize new guns. then they will find reasons to start taking away guns from people in smaller numbers so they can do it quietly. then they will probably make it very difficult to impossible for people to buy ammunition. they will find ways to do whatever they can quietly and in ways that is more acceptable to the larger population.
In light of the NSA spying, don't you think they already have a very good idea who loves guns based on google searches, online purchases & emails? I do. I remember when ppl freaked out when that Westchester paper put the little dots on a map showing gun owners in the area on their website. Wouldn't you want to show potential criminals that you're packing?
Well, since you've already figured it all out, what are you worried about. As soon as the first inklings start creeping out about the impending de facto siezure get the boys together and resist the tyranny...
i did say that i dont think it will happen in my lifetime; so to pretend that im suggesting that any day now ill be fighting the federalies isnt very genuine.
that one guy in that pic looks like he could eat 5 federalies.
In light of the NSA spying, don't you think they already have a very good idea who loves guns based on google searches, online purchases & emails? I do. I remember when ppl freaked out when that Westchester paper put the little dots on a map showing gun owners in the area on their website. Wouldn't you want to show potential criminals that you're packing?
im sure they know a lot more than we want them to. isnt that part of why people are complaining about the NSA?
you arent packing if you arent home. so now people have recommended homes to break into and steal guns.
i did say that i dont think it will happen in my lifetime; so to pretend that im suggesting that any day now ill be fighting the federalies isnt very genuine.
that one guy in that pic looks like he could eat 5 federalies.
Perhaps not you, but many in the pro-gun community argue just that. Head over to CD's own gun and hunting subforum and you will see plenty of bravado about what people will do when the government goes too far or what guns are best for when society collapses. That's the rhetoric I hear most. You can't expect reasonable people to give up on things like limiting ammo capacity and even banning "assault weapons" when the other side is only screaming back that they need those AR-15's with 100 round magazines for when the meteor hits and Obama unleashes the UN troops...
Actually I probably understand more than most....I have a number of Remington 870 competition 12 gauge shotguns that I am more than proficient with. I think I made my statements more than clear of what's considered a military style "assault weapon" designed for the battlefield. Your the only one who seems to be confused and need to post pictures ?
Hi,
As a side note, out of curiosity, what type of competitions did you compete in using a Remington 870? Not that an 870 isn't a fine weapon but I've only seen them used in the military/police/ home defense context. Never at a skeet or trap match. Well actually I've seen them used by beginners on the cheap, never by someone so good they are banned from the sport.
The 870 was also used by James Edgar Holmes during the 2012 Aurora shootings. Certainly we must ban these shotguns too.
Perhaps not you, but many in the pro-gun community argue just that. Head over to CD's own gun and hunting subforum and you will see plenty of bravado about what people will do when the government goes too far or what guns are best for when society collapses. That's the rhetoric I hear most. You can't expect reasonable people to give up on things like limiting ammo capacity and even banning "assault weapons" when the other side is only screaming back that they need those AR-15's with 100 round magazines for when the meteor hits and Obama unleashes the UN troops...
i dont think its wise to use those 100 round drums. i believe (without googling) thats what the movie theater nut had which jammed up. they arent very reliable. i also believe the virginia tech guy used regular handguns.
now, i believe this hasnt really been included in this discussion so im hesitant to open up a new area of debate; but i dont think these high capacity magazines are involved in a large number of gun deaths. in the case of adam lanza (which is probably the worst) im guessing he could have done as much damage with handguns, 10 round magazines and/or shotguns. so while i agree the issue to debate when it comes to "assault weapons" is the magazine capacity; im not so sure you would make much difference by limiting them.
i figure your best bet to reduce gun violence is if you can hold individuals accountable for the guns that are used in crime (i believe you had said that). but thats really a solution for overall gun crime; not these mass killings where the shooter isnt probably thinking of getting away with it. to reduce the mass killings; i think you need someone shooting back.
Last edited by CaptainNJ; 09-10-2013 at 01:37 PM..
As a side note, out of curiosity, what type of competitions did you compete in using a Remington 870? Not that an 870 isn't a fine weapon but I've only seen them used in the military/police/ home defense context. Never at a skeet or trap match. Well actually I've seen them used by beginners on the cheap, never by someone so good they are banned from the sport.
The 870 has been in continuous production since 1951 with hundreds of variants made. Among them is the Wingmaster which is available in trap, skeet and field configurations. A Wingmaster 870 "Field" was what I learned to hunt with. I've never competed in shooting competitions, but even a quick google search will show that various 870's are still popular guns and for a long time absolutely dominated competitive shotgun events.
Quote:
The 870 was also used by James Edgar Holmes during the 2012 Aurora shootings. Certainly we must ban these shotguns too.
He used an "Express Tactical" 870 that had a 6+1 capacity. That's 7 shots. The S&W M&P15 he used had a 100 round magazine fitted. Luckily for the people in the theater it jammed after around 45 rounds and he had to switch to his Glock 22 and its 15 round mag. Given the different ammos involved we can tell a lot about the effectiveness. All 12 of the victims killed (I believe) were killed by the M&P15 and they had a total of 33 rounds in them. Despite the fact he started shooting with the 870, he killed people with the M&P15.
Guns are tools...he picked the right tool for the job...
i dont think its wise to use those 100 round drums. i believe (without googling) thats what the movie theater nut had which jammed up. they arent very reliable. i also believe the virginia tech guy used regular handguns.
now, i believe this hasnt really been included in this discussion so im hesitant to open up a new area of debate; but i dont think these high capacity magazines are involved in a large number of gun deaths. in the case of adam lanza (which is probably the worst) im guessing he could have done as much damage with handguns, 10 round magazines and/or shotguns. so while i agree the issue to debate when it comes to "assault weapons" is the magazine capacity; im not so sure you would make much difference by limiting them.
i figure your best bet to reduce gun violence is if you can hold individuals accountable for the guns that are used in crime (i believe you had said that). but thats really a solution for overall gun crime; not these mass killings where the shooter isnt probably thinking of getting away with it. to reduce the mass killings; i think you need someone shooting back.
The high capacity magazines are simply a matter of reasonableness. How many bullets do you really need. Also, how "rapid change" do we need to make those magazines? Guns used for reasonable function (home/personal defense, hunting and sport) don't need extremely high capacity magazines. The only reason you would need/want one is to maximize your "active shooter" by limiting the time you need to reload. In Lanza's case I believe he used standard 30 round clips, but they can be swapped rather quickly and are easy to carry in large quantity. I do agree that one can do a lot of damage even with regular firearms, but there is a limit when one needs to reload. Those few precious seconds can be the difference between escape and death.
At the end of the day though arguing over mass shootings is pointless. They will continue to happen and there is little that can be done about it. I do see a reasonable argument to limit the effectiveness of the tools employed, but that's about it. Even the idea of someone shooting back is limited and has proven ineffective. Columbine had an armed deputy at the school who engaged one of the shooters during the massacre. He was unable to stop him and prevent him from entering the school. The only effective means of stopping it is for people in the immediate vicinity to retreat and the police to engage the shooter.
The last part is something I have said before and totally agree with. The real issue is day-to-day gun violence not random nut jobs. The way you curb that is to cut the supply. The best way to cut the supply is with a registry and making owners actually be responsible for the guns in their possession.
The 870 has been in continuous production since 1951 with hundreds of variants made. Among them is the Wingmaster which is available in trap, skeet and field configurations. A Wingmaster 870 "Field" was what I learned to hunt with. I've never competed in shooting competitions, but even a quick google search will show that various 870's are still popular guns and for a long time absolutely dominated competitive shotgun events.
He used an "Express Tactical" 870 that had a 6+1 capacity. That's 7 shots. The S&W M&P15 he used had a 100 round magazine fitted. Luckily for the people in the theater it jammed after around 45 rounds and he had to switch to his Glock 22 and its 15 round mag. Given the different ammos involved we can tell a lot about the effectiveness. All 12 of the victims killed were killed by the M&P15 and they had a total of 33 rounds in them. Despite the fact he started shooting with the 870, he killed people with the M&P15.
Guns are tools...he picked the right tool for the job...
Hi,
Thanks for the answer. Not to sound like a wise guy but I've competed/attended a thousand matches. The 870 is a fine weapon, I own a few.................its a pump shotgun. No one is "competitive" in skeet/trap with a pump. Florida Gentleman stated he was so good with an 870 at matches he was banned from competing. I was curious what type of competition it was, just never heard of it.
Thanks for the answer. Not to sound like a wise guy but I've competed/attended a thousand matches. The 870 is a fine weapon, I own a few.................its a pump shotgun. No one is "competitive" in skeet/trap with a pump. Florida Gentleman stated he was so good with an 870 at matches he was banned from competing. I was curious what type of competition it was, just never heard of it.
.......I'll wait for his reply.
Got to go.
Perhaps his extended families annual turkey shoot?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
