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Sorry. It was probably this...Im proud to show my support for this country in a time of war...from your earlier post that confused me.
Yes, there is sadly a plethora of things that are worse yet, a variety of which are the direct consequence of actions taken by the flag-wavers.
like what? lets compare records for the non flag wavers. again Iraq- the blinding ignorance, lies and rhoetic against the war are momumental, yet that comes from the non flag wavers.
Let's just come to the point re Bush-bashing. If Bush weren't so gloriously deserving of being bashed, many fewer people would be engaging in the practice. It is all what the man has earnestly and honestly brought upon himself. And unable to deflect the more than well-founded bases for these attacks coming from all sides, the defenders of the President and his hodgepodge of atrocious policies are forced into imagining some sort of mental disorder on the part of critics as their only means for explaining it all away. Can there be any more lame response that that?
please re-read yours....
the people engaging in the bashing all seem to spout the same rhetoric that is usually false. it astounds me, seems like you guys have newsletters on what to say...and its almost always wrong.
ignorance, arrogance and stupidity arent a mental illness...just character flaws
the people engaging in the bashing all seem to spout the same rhetoric that is usually false. it astounds me, seems like you guys have newsletters on what to say...and its almost always wrong.
ignorance, arrogance and stupidity arent a mental illness...just character flaws
the people engaging in the bashing all seem to spout the same rhetoric that is usually false. it astounds me, seems like you guys have newsletters on what to say...and its almost always wrong.
Given the generality of your reference to korea/Clinton above, I'm not so sure you're the best judge of what's false or wrong. There is very little that the current administration has done since its inception that is not deserving of criticism. In an uncommon number of cases, the criticism called for is severe. If a hundred people come up to you and tell you that your fly is open, it might not be the case that you are suddenly being made the victim of a left-wing newsletter conspiracy. It could be that your fly is open. It would be worthwhile doing some fact-checking just to be sure.
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Originally Posted by smackie94
ignorance, arrogance and stupidity arent a mental illness...just character flaws
Given the generality of your reference to korea/Clinton above, I'm not so sure you're the best judge of what's false or wrong. There is very little that the current administration has done since its inception that is not deserving of criticism. In an uncommon number of cases, the criticism called for is severe.
this is where we differ, i agree with alot of the decision others detest
If a hundred people come up to you and tell you that your fly is open, it might not be the case that you are suddenly being made the victim of a left-wing newsletter conspiracy. It could be that your fly is open. It would be worthwhile doing some fact-checking just to be sure.
What about redundancy?
speaking of clintons Korea policy...in short what was it, "please dont build nukes, we will give you money so you wont starve"...oh and ignore the fact you were testing inmediate range missles for warhead delivery over japan in 1999.
and come to find out that money helped in part to build nukes, all while ol bill was patting himself on the back for achieving such a great diplomatic success??
that is the cliffnotes version...
what do you propose we do about Korea...attack? lets see how far that would fly on the left?
enlighten me on what this admin has done that deserves such criticism? because I agree with some of the criticism (illegals, rumsfeld) but fo rthe most part i think they have done ok.
redundancy can be good or bad, depending on what is redundant
speaking of clintons Korea policy...in short what was it, "please dont build nukes, we will give you money so you wont starve"...
As I suspected. Under the Agreed Framework of October 1994, the DPRK plutonium reactor at Yongbyon (which had been built and went into operation during the Reagan administration and was upgraded during the Bush-1 administration) was shut down, its fuel rods were removed and canned, and they along with the adjacent reprocessing and storage plants were placed under IAEA seal and continuous monitoring. In exchange for abandoning its program, the US agreed to supply the DPRK with annual supplies of heavy fuel oil and established a consortium based in South Korea to construct two light-water reactors, the fuel for which is unsuitable as input to the production of weapons-grade materials. Despite some bumps in the road, the regime established under the Agreed Framework worked reasonably well for seven years. Then the current administration came along replaced Clinton's constructive engagement policy with one of malign neglect. Things then fell apart in a hurry.
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Originally Posted by smackie94
oh and ignore the fact you were testing inmediate range missles for warhead delivery over japan in 1999.
The test you refer to was a failure and occurred in 1998. As you apparently don't know, that test resulted in something called the Perry Process which culminated in the DPRK's unilateral moratorium on missile testing announced in 1999. That too held up until disintegrating over provocations provided by the Bush adminsitration.
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Originally Posted by smackie94
...and come to find out that money helped in part to build nukes, all while ol bill was patting himself on the back for achieving such a great diplomatic success?
All of the weapons-grade material that the DPRK has ever possessed was produced either prior to 1992 when irregularities brought its programs under enhanced IAEA scrutiny, or since 2002 when the DPRK withdrew from the NPT, expelled the IAEA, and (in 2003) restarted the plutonium reactor at Yongbyon.
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Originally Posted by smackie94
that is the cliffnotes version...
A far more apt cliffnotes version would be that what was a controlled and manageable situation has been swiftly turned into an uncontrolled crisis through the intervention of a bunch of cowboy-diplomats who are ever ready to put their ideology ahead of the exigencies of practical politics.
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Originally Posted by smackie94
what do you propose we do about Korea...attack? lets see how far that would fly on the left?
Hmmm. Attack. Seemingly the only arrow in the right-wing quiver. The more pertinent question re the DPRK is what to do about the US. Step-1 is to run these mismanaging neocons out of town. Thereafter, a return to normal bilateral negotiations with multilateral backing would be called for. It is all that has ever worked. It is all that ever will.
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Originally Posted by smackie94
enlighten me on what this admin has done that deserves such criticism?
See above for one among many examples.
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Originally Posted by smackie94
because I agree with some of the criticism (illegals, rumsfeld) but for the most part i think they have done ok.
Done okay with what? Name one thing. Illegals are another forum entirely, but there is one area at least where W's ideas made some actual sense. But the right-wing, with all the intelligence and temperament of your average pit-bull, shot that down in record time. Now you get the status quo for two more years and ultimately a deal that you will like even less. As for Rumsfeld, he was the darling of the right-wing not so long ago. A veritable pop star who made liberals look silly. What happened there???
the tests were also in 1999, hence my point...i was in japan at the time. it was a big deal over there, since the afformentioned moratorium.
how soon after N korea took office did the Nuke test occur?
so in that short time, the Republicans made it so the N Koreans were so angry that they did years of research & building of nukes that they were able to test not to long after Bush came to office?
are you a fan of N korea?
do you think Kim Il jong is really a person to hold his word? bi lateral talks are crap most of the time....
the tests were also in 1999, hence my point...i was in japan at the time. it was a big deal over there, since the afformentioned moratorium.
No. One test. Taepo Dong-1. August 31, 1998. Lots of political noise in 1999. The DPRK moratorium was announced on September 24, 1999, at the conclusion of the Perry Process and seven days after Clinton lifted some trade and financial sanctions as had been called for under the Agreed Framework. No further DPRK missile launches until July 4, 2006 (save for cruise missiles fired during national military exercises in 2003).
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Originally Posted by smackie94
how soon after N korea took office did the Nuke test occur?
The DPRK nuclear test occurred on October 9, 2006.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smackie94
so in that short time, the Republicans made it so the N Koreans were so angry that they did years of research & building of nukes that they were able to test not to long after Bush came to office?
That's correct. Roughly a year and nine months after Bush came into office for the second time.
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Originally Posted by smackie94
are you a fan of N korea?
I don't see the world as one big high school football game.
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Originally Posted by smackie94
do you think Kim Il jong is really a person to hold his word?
I have never met Kim Il Jong or Kim Jong Il. The DPRK however is a closed, persistently paranoid, and in some ways perhaps even psychotic society. There is no reason to believe that they will play by the rules. There is every reason to believe that they will play nevertheless, as the DPRK has a long list of wants and needs that the west, and particularly the US, has control over. Any relationship between the US and the DPRK will be a delicate one. No place for cowboys. We have had 6½ years of seeing what good labeling, harassing, and then ignoring them does. Maybe we should get back to something that actually works.
the tests were also in 1999, hence my point...i was in japan at the time. it was a big deal over there, since the afformentioned moratorium.
how soon after N korea took office did the Nuke test occur?
so in that short time, the Republicans made it so the N Koreans were so angry that they did years of research & building of nukes that they were able to test not to long after Bush came to office?
are you a fan of N korea?
do you think Kim Il jong is really a person to hold his word? bi lateral talks are crap most of the time....
What is your problem? Do you understand what has recently been negotiated in N. Korea regarding their nuclear facilties? Hint: IT'S OVER.
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