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Old 09-14-2013, 04:06 PM
5,768 posts, read 11,231,573 times
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The Bush administration was warned in 2002 and 2003 that Iraq was an ethnic morass, and that following an invasion, there needed to be a comprehensive plan in place to prevent the country from descending into sectarian chaos.

Those warnings were ignored...

Iraq suicide blast kills 25 at funeral in ethnic minority Shabak town - CNN.com

The Shabak people number about 250,000 in the Nineveh province and have their own language, Shabaki, as well as style of dress.
The Shabak are one of several non-Muslim or quasi-Muslim groups that have been persecuted or driven out of Iraq since the 2003 invasion. Others include the Christians (Iraq's Christian population has collapsed from 1.5 million in 2003 to perhaps 500,000 today), the Yazidis (victims of the single deadliest car bomb attack of the entire Iraq war, with 800 killed on a single day in 2007), the Mandeans, Iraqi-Armenians, Iraq's Kawliya gypsy community, the handful of remaining Iraqi Jews, Iraq's tiny Druze population, and the Adyghe/Circassian people.

There are also many areas of localized ethnic cleansing since the war began - not only Sunni/Shia, but Kurd, Turkomen, and other sub-groups.

The lesson here is actually fairly simple - "intervening" in the affairs of an ethnically-fractured nation is inherently messy, and should be avoided if possible.

Just remember all the failed Iraq predictions of prewar "hawks" back in 2002 and 2003 whenever a new military strike or action is proposed. All the flowery language about "democracy" and "freedom." It didn't quite turn out that way...
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Old 09-14-2013, 06:26 PM
1,976 posts, read 1,249,918 times
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Can't say I'm shocked anyone who ever read at least a little bit of history would know the middle east has been unstable for a very long time. And even more so when the allies of ww2 gave Israel over to the jews. That part of the world grew from local tribes to eventually become towns, than cities and states to becoming there own countries. Much like many African countries as well that started out as nothing more than tribes yet many of these areas continue to cling to the tribal mentality. To have peace in the middle east you would have to wait a very long time and that would be if we didn't have agitators who make more money when they're at war. Also as a side note another thing that might help is to stop doing business with the Saudis as they generally lead the way for terrorism. At least the saudi royal family that is.
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Old 09-14-2013, 07:24 PM
Location: planet octupulous is nearing earths atmosphere
13,620 posts, read 12,278,407 times
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hay Iraq is a total loss, we got an eye on Syria right now!!
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Old 09-14-2013, 07:56 PM
10,541 posts, read 13,123,787 times
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Do you think ethnic cleansing is new to Iraq? It's just a different group this time.
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Old 09-14-2013, 11:55 PM
Location: Too far from home.
8,732 posts, read 6,545,835 times
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Ethnic cleansing/genocide is part of the process in creating a pure Islamic state. Rebels are already referring to Iraq as the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Palestine and Egypt) as opposed to the Republic of Iraq. Look at what was done to Christians in Egypt (by the MB) and in Syria (rebels) where 2 million Christians have fled. Leave or be killed. And to think the US has embraced these rebels and is helping them fulfill their goal.
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Old 09-15-2013, 04:41 PM
5,768 posts, read 11,231,573 times
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Do you think ethnic cleansing is new to Iraq?
The scale of the ethnic cleansing is larger since 2003. The reduction of Iraq's Christian population alone is unprecedented since perhaps the Mongol era. And it took a trillion American taxpayer dollars to do it...
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Old 09-15-2013, 05:53 PM
47,531 posts, read 67,103,303 times
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It's what happens when there is no assimilation, no melting pot and instead that "salad bowl" where all groups keep their ethnic identity, their own separate cultures and languages.
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Old 09-15-2013, 06:03 PM
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 16,608,663 times
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Nation building is inherently incompatible with US politics, since our presidents serve a max of 8 years, and nation building is generally at least a 25 year undertaking. We should have learned the lesson in Vietnam.

I recall as a child one of my sunday-school teachers told the class that America had never lost a war, and he considered that evidence of divine providence towards America. This would have been around maybe 1965 or so, so Vietnam was not on the books yet.

Since then we lost Viet Nam, and lost (or probably better characterized as 'failed') in Somolia, Iraq, Afghanistan, and potentially Syria (if we decide to go there). We desperately need a new model for FP.
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Old 09-16-2013, 02:22 AM
Location: USA
6,230 posts, read 6,534,712 times
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Saddam kept all those groups in check with his hard ruling style. Nobody cares about Iraq anymore since the elites made their money and are moving on to Syria.
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Old 09-16-2013, 07:19 AM
Location: Fredericktown,Ohio
7,168 posts, read 5,145,102 times
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Spreading democracy and freedom, USA USA USA
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