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Old 09-17-2013, 05:19 PM
 
20,948 posts, read 19,049,136 times
Reputation: 10270

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
The core of your argument that it wasn't about "saving the US auto industry" are ignorant nonsense. Alan Mullaly - head of Ford - has said outright, that if GM had gone under Ford would have been in HUGE trouble too because both companies (as well as Chrysler and others) shared the same set of suppliers and without GMs' orders, their mutual suppliers wouldn't have had enough business to survive and thus would have had to shut down, depriving Ford (and the other carmakers who were not in trouble) of the parts the needed to make their vehicles. It's a very interconnected business and the loss of GM (as well as Chrysler) would have essentially caused a domino effect throughout the entire American auto industry.

Ken
So what?

They would have restructured and come back in a better position to compete globally.

 
Old 09-17-2013, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Alameda, CA
7,605 posts, read 4,844,821 times
Reputation: 1438
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
"capital injections, Treasury lending, asset purchases, government guarantees, and unusual central bank support and liquidity provision"

Yep. The financial industry was given money, lent money at very low/no interest, able to sell their toxic and devalued assets for full price to the government (taxpayers) bag-holder so as to avoid realizing losses which the government (taxpayers) then has to take, were back-stopped by the government, etc., etc.

"$12.6 trillion in direct aid given to the financial sector"

Crisis cost up to $14 trillion, Dallas Federal Reserve says
Did you check out the footnote to determine how they calculated the number. It came from an estimate in an IMF report. Most of the 12.6 trillion is from guarantees or promises to provide liquidity if necessary.

BTW the statement in the report was:

Assessing the Costs and Consequences of the 2007–09 Financial Crisis and Its Aftermath - Dallas Fed

"Direct government support for the U.S. financial sector totaled approximately $12.6 trillion, or more than 80 percent of 2007 GDP—a sum over and above what was provided via precrisis Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. deposit insurance limits and the Federal Reserve’s traditional monetary policy operations and lender-of-last-resort functions.[10]"
 
Old 09-17-2013, 05:26 PM
 
29,407 posts, read 22,003,124 times
Reputation: 5455
Quote:
Originally Posted by OICU812 View Post
Then there is the additional $16 trillion that the US taxpayers are on the hook for, because the Federal Reserve loaned it out to US corporations and foreign banks; Google the Federal Reserve audit that was conducted in 2011.
Well that doesn't count to lefties.
 
Old 09-17-2013, 05:29 PM
 
48,502 posts, read 96,848,488 times
Reputation: 18304
We are now about to auction off the loan that Fisher so called green cars owed to us after they basically only paid back about a third. .
 
Old 09-17-2013, 05:30 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,328,298 times
Reputation: 7627
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
So what?

They would have restructured and come back in a better position to compete globally.
WRONG!
They couldn't have restructured at the time because with the credit markets locked up there was no way in which capital would have been able to be infused into the restructured companies. That's WHY GM couldn't simply go into normal bankruptcy at the time. MONEY WAS FROZEN - that was the CORE of the problem to begin with. The entire US auto industry would have grounded to a halt - resulting in an even deeper recession and even HUGER US deficits. That's WHY both Bush AND Obama recognized that a bailout was the only acceptable solution.

You seem not to understand what is actually involved in a restructured bankruptcy. Such bankruptcies require cash infusion from SOMEWHERE and at the time there was no way for that happen.

Ken
 
Old 09-17-2013, 05:33 PM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,101,577 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Yeah, because saving the American auto industry wasn't important. That was millions of jobs plus the supply chain. And even today, the govt's ahead.
I'm completely shocked at the ignorance of americans who think bankruptcy = they were going to go away.. Honestly, dumbfounded that companies like Hershey, Ford, Disney etc would be shocked to hear that you think that when they filed bankruptcy, they arent around anymore.

Thats news to me, but hey, you always provided us with non stop news, cough,... humor.
 
Old 09-17-2013, 05:34 PM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,101,577 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
WRONG!
They couldn't have restructured at the time because with the credit markets locked up there was no way in which capital would have been able to be infused into the restructured companies. That's WHY GM couldn't simply go into normal bankruptcy at the time. MONEY WAS FROZEN - that was the CORE of the problem to begin with. The entire US auto industry would have grounded to a halt - resulting in an even deeper recession and even HUGER US deficits. That's WHY both Bush AND Obama recognized that a bailout was the only acceptable solution.

You seem not to understand what is actually involved in a restructured bankruptcy. Such bankruptcies require cash infusion from SOMEWHERE and at the time there was no way for that happen.

Ken
Weird how Ford managed to restructure..

OVERNIGHT borrowing was locked up, but only a fool, cough, lefties, would suggest that they use overnight borrowing to restructure..
 
Old 09-17-2013, 05:37 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,001 posts, read 44,813,405 times
Reputation: 13702
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Practically none of it required money
Wow. Since when does capital injections, Treasury lending, asset purchases, and liquidity provision require no money?
 
Old 09-17-2013, 05:45 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,001 posts, read 44,813,405 times
Reputation: 13702
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamSmyth View Post
Did you check out the footnote to determine how they calculated the number. It came from an estimate in an IMF report.
Yes, I did.

4.6% -- Capital Injection
2.3% -- Purchase of Assets and Lending by Treasury
41.9% -- Liquidity Provision

All require money.
 
Old 09-17-2013, 05:52 PM
 
Location: Alameda, CA
7,605 posts, read 4,844,821 times
Reputation: 1438
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Wow. Since when does capital injections, Treasury lending, asset purchases, and liquidity provision require no money?
From the IMF report that the calculation was based on only 7.5% of the support required money upfront. That would mean only 1.2 trillion upfront. The rest represented potential expenditures from guarantees and liquidity provisions.
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