Question for those who are opposed to gun regulation (stats, gasoline, Obama)
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He was not "mentally unstable" in any legal sense, because a court has to declare him so. Only then can he be prevented from buying a gun.
Well.....not completely true. In a background check, they look to see if you've been treated for mental illness and/or have been voluntarily or involuntarily committed to a psychiatric hospital, clinic, or department of a hospital.
Had the VA psychiatrist's warning about him been followed up by whoever they reported him to, his background check may have reflected that.
You don't need to have a judge declare you mentally ill.
The problem is not the way the law is applied, the problem was that when he called the police to report the voices in his head, he should have been picked up and put under observation by professionals. Not to mention the fact that the Navy ignored the information when it was provided to them, similar to the Ft Hood shooter.
There will be an investigation as to what really happened in Rhode Island, and whether someone dropped the ball. At this point, it makes an interesting back story, but that's about it.
Put yourself in law enforcement's position. A guy hears voices. So what? A lot of people hear voices and don't go shooting. Let's say they referred it to a court, or however the "mentally unfit" adjudication is supposed to happen. How long does that take? There is no way that process would have played out before he tried to buy a gun.
The guy had two reckless shooting incidents on his record. He clearly did not take firearm safety seriously. That ought to be enough right there. Tragically and predictably, it was not.
The problem is not the way the law is applied, the problem was that when he called the police to report the voices in his head, he should have been picked up and put under observation by professionals. Not to mention the fact that the Navy ignored the information when it was provided to them, similar to the Ft Hood shooter.
You don't need to have a judge declare you mentally ill.
YES. YOU DO.
"In VA, people with history of mental illness can purchase guns unless a court has declared them mentally unfit or they have been involuntarily committed to a hospital. A mental illness diagnosis or voluntary commitment are not enough to disqualify a potential gun buyer."
"In VA, people with history of mental illness can purchase guns unless a court has declared them mentally unfit or they have been involuntarily committed to a hospital. A mental illness diagnosis or voluntary commitment are not enough to disqualify a potential gun buyer."
Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective (which includes a determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful
authority that you are a danger to yourself or to others or are incompetent to manage your own affairs)
OR
have you ever been
committed to a mental institution?
"In VA, people with history of mental illness can purchase guns unless a court has declared them mentally unfit or they have been involuntarily committed to a hospital. A mental illness diagnosis or voluntary commitment are not enough to disqualify a potential gun buyer."
Virginia certainly is different then than most states (mine included). This is rare I would say that a state is that lenient.
That said.....had the VA Psychiatrist followed through, it sounds like he would have been denied…
Quote:
In VA, people with history of mental illness can purchase guns unless a court has declared them mentally unfit or they have been involuntarily committed to a hospital.
He should have been involuntarily committed for observation at least for the things he told the VA.
What's the rule in your state? Not what you think it is, but what it really is.
I know my state is not that lax for a fact.
I've been on the board of my local MH-MR for the last 32 years.
I have a female relative who was treated for depression 10 years ago who was denied a gun permit here although she never spent a day in a psychiatric hospital and definitely never went before a judge!
He purchased the gun LEGALLY. He tried to buy an AR-15, but the shop wouldn't give it to him immediately, because was not a Virginia resident. They happily sold him the Remington shotgun instead, and the ammo.
He was not "mentally unstable" in any legal sense, because a court has to declare him so. Only then can he be prevented from buying a gun.
Things become much clearer when you actually have the facts in front of you.
Hmmm, let me rephrase. He bought the gun legally within the contraints of NICS background check system. The real failure was in his failure at seperate times to be adjucated with mental problems (as he had a clear history) and failure to be prosecurted (again, 2 incidents of gun violence) which would have shown up on his record. This all points to the lapses in the current system discussed in my previous post.
This is on top of his other offenses - apparantly he sawed off the barrel of the shotgun (ATF offense), assuming he concealed it in his car to the site of the murders, and carrying it into the district which has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation.
Why do I get the feeling I am getting attacked by both sides of the gun debate. Is there ANYONE that has a moderate/middle of the line opinion here? Everyone is angry, no one is civil. This is why I stick to other forums.
I'm asking because I don't know. His previous incidents with firearm discharge -- is that enough to disqualify him? It sure as s**t should be.
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