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I know Jesus . I am learning who the Pope is by his words.
The Catholic church has changed doctrine as time goes by. Jesus is the same yesterday , today and forever. I do not adhere to a religion. I adhere to the word of God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by janelle144
Don't believe everything you read in the secular press. Why not go to the source to read the whole story.
Janella is right. If you read the actual article, as incredibly long as it is , you'll see the secular press selectively quoted him without providing the full context and background of his message during that interview.
While there are a few comments he made I feel a bit uneasy or eyebrow raising about in the interview he gave, they were only a few (not to mention my interpretation or "feelings" may not be right), and the overall message I found rather orthodox.
He's asked a many things during the interview and he covers such a sweeping range of things that's difficult to state in brevity his concepts and direction on most things.
I'm not the most well read man on earth but I've done a fair bit of reading, with a wide range of literature, for an inner-city person. I've read a few of the Christian classics and I've read or read about some of the Christian mystics. And mysticism is a particular expression of Christianity (or any religion). In Islam you'll find that Sufism is very mystical in its expressions and literature. The last great Western Christian mystic in the West was probably Thomas Merton. I've read a couple of his books. At any rate... noticed rather quickly into the interview that Pope Francis is a mystic, and that's the expression of Christianity he most prefers.
Mystics always skirt on the edges of both orthodoxy and what the religious people of their time feel comfortable with.
I don't think mysticism is the only way or only right way for Christianity to be expressed. But it has its role. And to understand this Pope I think you have to understand he prefers Christian mysticism. Like a St. Teresa of Avila or a Meister Eckhart. [1]
I think it will weaken his ability as an administrator though. When you think of excellent CEO's and Army Generals you think of more or less very confident men in their own opinions, own judgments, that have no problem making quick decisions and laying down the hammer.
Mystics we might correlate more to long, deep, reflecting poets and artists running retreats in the beautiful alps, searching for healing of the interior man. We think of men and women less certain in their own judgments that take time to ponder the subtle and varying shades of things.
Basically, Pope Francis pointed out that Catholicism and Catholics simply can't be a people only finding definition in themselves as the opposition to homosexuality and abortion. And conservative lay Catholics--usually on the political right (in the U.S. that's Republicans)--do exactly that.
I'd prefer to see someone in the office as the Pope, that would be much less mystical and one that is a tight administrator, and more condemning of the world. But I also come from the U.S. and the inner-city of Milwaukee. The U.S. with its Navy Yard shootings, 12 gunned down in Chicago, the serial killers, child abductors etc. His home of Buenos Aires and the City of Rome don't have the Navy Yards' and frequency of serial killers etc.
But that's my view and my preference and also tied a bit to my personality. But Pope Francis so far as I can tell said nothing wrong or unorthodox. It is completely Catholic that there are other issues in this world and life beyond the issue of homosexuality and beyond the tragedies of abortion. That does not mean those other two issues are not important. But they are not the only issues or only experiences people are facing or walking through in life.
Janella is right. If you read the actual article, as incredibly long as it is , you'll see the secular press selectively quoted him without providing the full context and background of his message during that interview.
While there are a few comments he made I feel a bit uneasy or eyebrow raising about in the interview he gave, they were only a few (not to mention my interpretation or "feelings" may not be right), and the overall message I found rather orthodox.
He's asked a many things during the interview and he covers such a sweeping range of things that's difficult to state in brevity his concepts and direction on most things.
I'm not the most well read man on earth but I've done a fair bit of reading, with a wide range of literature, for an inner-city person. I've read a few of the Christian classics and I've read or read about some of the Christian mystics. And mysticism is a particular expression of Christianity (or any religion). In Islam you'll find that Sufism is very mystical in its expressions and literature. The last great Western Christian mystic in the West was probably Thomas Merton. I've read a couple of his books. At any rate... noticed rather quickly into the interview that Pope Francis is a mystic, and that's the expression of Christianity he most prefers.
Mystics always skirt on the edges of both orthodoxy and what the religious people of their time feel comfortable with.
I don't think mysticism is the only way or only right way for Christianity to be expressed. But it has its role. And to understand this Pope I think you have to understand he prefers Christian mysticism. Like a St. Teresa of Avila or a Meister Eckhart. [1]
I think it will weaken his ability as an administrator though. When you think of excellent CEO's and Army Generals you think of more or less very confident men in their own opinions, own judgments, that have no problem making quick decisions and laying down the hammer.
Mystics we might correlate more to long, deep, reflecting poets and artists running retreats in the beautiful alps, searching for healing of the interior man. We think of men and women less certain in their own judgments that take time to ponder the subtle and varying shades of things.
Basically, Pope Francis pointed out that Catholicism and Catholics simply can't be a people only finding definition in themselves as the opposition to homosexuality and abortion. And conservative lay Catholics--usually on the political right (in the U.S. that's Republicans)--do exactly that.
I'd prefer to see someone in the office as the Pope, that would be much less mystical and one that is a tight administrator, and more condemning of the world. But I also come from the U.S. and the inner-city of Milwaukee. The U.S. with its Navy Yard shootings, 12 gunned down in Chicago, the serial killers, child abductors etc. His home of Buenos Aires and the City of Rome don't have the Navy Yards' and frequency of serial killers etc.
But that's my view and my preference and also tied a bit to my personality. But Pope Francis so far as I can tell said nothing wrong or unorthodox. It is completely Catholic that there are other issues in this world and life beyond the issue of homosexuality and beyond the tragedies of abortion. That does not mean those other two issues are not important. But they are not the only issues or only experiences people are facing or walking through in life.
Jesus said the kingdom of God is within you and all who receive the Holy Spirit when accepting Christ as their savior.
This is the new person in Christ.. they become spiritually aware as the Holy Spirit directs , reproves and cleanses them.. We come together as Christians to edify one another , reprove one another and the Holy Spirit personally reproves us too .. We are born of the Holy Spirit of God into the realm of his spirit.. We are spirit more than flesh as the spirit of God overtakes the natural man who is sinful in nature.
The Pope is not accepting Homosexuality or abortions.. but many think he is.. The pope needs to be more aware of how the secular world will twist his words as saying the Pope is accepting of sin and not the repentance of sin.. without the repentance of sin as the message Jesus spoke , what good is Christianity?.. it is trampled down and useless.
The watering down of the message of Christ is happening in many churches.. God knows from beginning to end . God is never mocked.
This Pope is coming into his position with the Catholic church not exactly being sin free(the pedophile priest scandals.) This has made it more complicated for the Catholic church to criticize certain groups like in the past. I think this Pope recognizes this complication and had adjusted his words in relation to all the child abuse scandals.
This Pope is coming into his position with the Catholic church not exactly being sin free(the pedophile priest scandals.) This has made it more complicated for the Catholic church to criticize certain groups like in the past. I think this Pope recognizes this complication and had adjusted his words in relation to all the child abuse scandals.
There is no man who should stand in the place of Christ. Jesus is the way , the truth and the life.. no man comes to the Father but through Jesus.
"I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through me" (John 14:6)
"I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins." (John 8:24)
"Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)
"For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Timothy 2:5)
This Pope is coming into his position with the Catholic church not exactly being sin free(the pedophile priest scandals.) This has made it more complicated for the Catholic church to criticize certain groups like in the past. I think this Pope recognizes this complication and had adjusted his words in relation to all the child abuse scandals.
Then why didn't he just say that?
Why would he come out and insist that abortion is no big deal at all, nor is sodomy? Couldn't he have just condemned pedophilia? Couldn't he promote compassion for the poor without suggesting abortion is a non-issue?
Douthat points out that the Episcopal Church has declined 23% in the last decade, identifying the loss as a sign of its theological infidelity.
Yes, two generations after the Episcopalians and United Methodists and other bodies like them entered a long swoon, denominations like the Southern Baptists are experiencing some reversals, and the post-1970s evangelical revival seems to have hit a kind of demographic ceiling. But it would take literally decades of decline for conservative churches to come close to sharing liberal Protestantism’s current sickness-unto-death. Consider the following statistics (taken from Rodney Stark’s “The Churching of America”): In 1940, for every 1,000 churchgoers in the United States, 224 belonged to one of four major Mainline bodies (United Methodists, PCUSA Presbyterians, Episcopalians and Congregationalists), while 77 were Southern Baptists. By 2000, the Southern Baptist share of the churchgoing population equalled the share of those four more liberal churches combined — not because SBC growth was extraordinary (though it was significant), but because the liberal churches’ decline was so astonishingly steep.
Why would he come out and insist that abortion is no big deal at all, nor is sodomy? Couldn't he have just condemned pedophilia? Couldn't he promote compassion for the poor without suggesting abortion is a non-issue?
The pope is not saying that at all. He is saying there are other issues that need addressing as people are probably starving in drought areas and the poor are suffering.
The pope is saying we need to let gays know that God loves them and the kingdom of God is at hand.. he stopped there and never said the word repentance.. but this is in no way the Pope accepting sin.
The Pope is walking on egg shells... Jesus never did.. Jesus spoke freely and with truth as either accepting him as savior or not.
Why would he come out and insist that abortion is no big deal at all, nor is sodomy? Couldn't he have just condemned pedophilia? Couldn't he promote compassion for the poor without suggesting abortion is a non-issue?
I'll admit I'm making some assumptions about where this Pope is probably coming from. It seems that by the church not exactly being sin free itself for the reason I mentioned the church will have to alter how it approaches all the past sinners it has focused on.
The pope is not saying that at all. He is saying there are other issues that need addressing as people are probably starving in drought areas and the poor are suffering.
The pope is saying we need to let gays know that God loves them and the kingdom of God is at hand.. he stopped there and never said the word repentance.. but this is in no way the Pope accepting sin.
The Pope is walking on egg shells... Jesus never did.. Jesus spoke freely and with truth as either accepting him as savior or not.
Then he should have said "in addition to the other issues" instead of making it sound like the church needed to go along with abortion or shut up about it. He didn't have to mention the two in order to say that the poor need compassion or whatever it is he thinks they need.
I think there is a reason he actually named the issues he thinks need to be silenced. It was presented as "instead of", not "in addition to".
Also I think the position of the church was always "hate the sin, love the sinner", and I've never seen where homosexuals themselves are condemned so the pope didn't come up with something new.
Also I think the position of the church was always "hate the sin, love the sinner", and I've never seen where homosexuals themselves are condemned so the pope didn't come up with something new.
Why would the Christian Church take a position that is from Ghandi - he wasn't a Christian.
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, you'll see the secular press selectively quoted him without providing the full context and background of his message during that interview.
about in the interview he gave, they were only a few (not to mention my interpretation or "feelings" may not be right), and the overall message I found rather orthodox.
