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did you just refer to all teachers as "she?" also, teachers start at $50k per year where I live.
Well, you must live in an area with a higher cost of living because it starts around $31k here. No, I didn't refer to all teachers as females. I used "she" because most teachers are female.
Well, you must live in an area with a higher cost of living because it starts around $31k here. No, I didn't refer to all teachers as females. I used "she" because most teachers are female.
I think it's about 80/20. cost of living has nothing to do with it. teachers start at $50k where I am.
and don't forget your pension plans and powerful unions. people with normal jobs don't have those. you're government employees.
Don't forget what we pay for those pension plans. Yes, my pension plan rivals the one I had when I was in engineering. Why shouldn't it? Is my job less important now? There is, however, one difference from when I was an engineer. I did not have to pay into the pension plan. As a teacher, I contribute 7% of my pay into the pension plan. So yes, I still have a good pension, I just pay a chunk of it now. Medical is about the same. It costs more but I'm pretty sure it costs more in engineering as well now.
Yes, I am a government employee and the job I do is important. Important enough that we should not need second jobs to pay the mortgage. I find it very sad that given the importance of the job we do we need unions to have a fair wage and benefits package. That reminds me. Take union dues out of my wages. I never was a pro union person until I became a teacher. Two years in a non union school convinced me they are needed by teachers. My pay and working conditions were horrible there and you cannot do quality work in horrible conditions. They had me conducting labs with 35 students crammed into a 750 square foot room that didn't even have an eye wash station. When I complained, they replaced me. My union would fight that tooth and nail as they should.
I think it's about 80/20. cost of living has nothing to do with it. teachers start at $50k where I am.
I disagree, the cost of living does affect teacher pay. That's not to say that teachers in DE don't make a true $50K salary, but if your cost of living was the same as Mississippi the teacher pay in your area would probably be lower as well.
Don't forget what we pay for those pension plans. Yes, my pension plan rivals the one I had when I was in engineering. Why shouldn't it? Is my job less important now? There is, however, one difference from when I was an engineer. I did not have to pay into the pension plan. As a teacher, I contribute 7% of my pay into the pension plan. So yes, I still have a good pension, I just pay a chunk of it now. Medical is about the same. It costs more but I'm pretty sure it costs more in engineering as well now.
Yes, I am a government employee and the job I do is important. Important enough that we should not need second jobs to pay the mortgage. I find it very sad that given the importance of the job we do we need unions to have a fair wage and benefits package. That reminds me. Take union dues out of my wages. I never was a pro union person until I became a teacher. Two years in a non union school convinced me they are needed by teachers. My pay and working conditions were horrible there and you cannot do quality work in horrible conditions. They had me conducting labs with 35 students crammed into a 750 square foot room that didn't even have an eye wash station. When I complained, they replaced me. My union would fight that tooth and nail as they should.
everything you are saying tells me you have never worked as an engineer. I have never, in my life, heard of a pension plan you didn't pay into. whether it be a 401k, 403b, etc. you are making things up. 7% for a lifetime of guaranteed income? do you hear that? it's the real world playing the worlds smallest violin just for you. if you need a second job to pay the mortgage, you obviously bought a house you couldn't afford. I am guessing that you didn't work in finance after your "engineering" career.
Don't forget what we pay for those pension plans. Yes, my pension plan rivals the one I had when I was in engineering. Why shouldn't it? Is my job less important now? There is, however, one difference from when I was an engineer. I did not have to pay into the pension plan. As a teacher, I contribute 7% of my pay into the pension plan. So yes, I still have a good pension, I just pay a chunk of it now. Medical is about the same. It costs more but I'm pretty sure it costs more in engineering as well now.
Yes, I am a government employee and the job I do is important. Important enough that we should not need second jobs to pay the mortgage. I find it very sad that given the importance of the job we do we need unions to have a fair wage and benefits package. That reminds me. Take union dues out of my wages. I never was a pro union person until I became a teacher. Two years in a non union school convinced me they are needed by teachers. My pay and working conditions were horrible there and you cannot do quality work in horrible conditions. They had me conducting labs with 35 students crammed into a 750 square foot room that didn't even have an eye wash station. When I complained, they replaced me. My union would fight that tooth and nail as they should.
Eh, you can have good and bad unions. In Chicago the teachers, on average, make about $70K and they constantly cry and scream for more money or strike. The problem with that is the money never makes it into the actual classrooms so it ends up costing more to educate a kid in Chicago vs the suburbs, but the results are worse and we can't even afford the current pension promises. The state constitution bars the pensions from ever being cut as well...
everything you are saying tells me you have never worked as an engineer. I have never, in my life, heard of a pension plan you didn't pay into. whether it be a 401k, 403b, etc. you are making things up. 7% for a lifetime of guaranteed income? do you hear that? it's the real world playing the worlds smallest violin just for you. if you need a second job to pay the mortgage, you obviously bought a house you couldn't afford. I am guessing that you didn't work in finance after your "engineering" career.
LOL. Do you not realize that every company is not the same? I'm telling YOU what "I" had as an engineer and your response is to tell me I never worked as one??? Seriously???
Sorry, you have that wrong. I worked for 17 years as an engineer, mostly in product design and release and testing. I had a pension plan I was not required to pay into when I was an engineer. I had the option of paying 1.5% of my wage into the plan and upping my pension to from 1.25% of some average final salary times the number of years I worked to 1.5% of my salary times the number of years I worked and paid into the plan. I also had a match on my 401K for most years I worked as an engineer that varied from 1% on 2% contributed to 5% on 10% contributed I always took advantage of. It was a pretty good deal. After 17 years, I walked away with $250K in my 401K and took a buy out on my pension because the company is in bankruptcy and I didn't want to chance they wouldn't be around. That cost me but half of what I would have gotten is better than nothing. They just paid me back for what I paid in with interest.
As a teacher, I contribute 7% of my income to get the 1.25% (at least I think it's 1.25% as I'm on some hybrid plan (partial pension partial self funded). It might be less. Not sure I'm staying in teaching right now so I'm not concerned with how much.) I'm also required to contribute 4% into accounts that are matched at 3% because I won't get medical when I retire and I get a lower pension amount. Personally, I'd rather have the 7% of my income in a 403B with a partial match but that was not an option.
As to that guaranteed lifetime income...can you do math? 1.25% of my average final income times the number of years I worked would be 37.5% of my income when I retire after a 30 year career (I can't do that because I'm a late entry into teaching). During that 30 years, at 7%, I'd contribute 2.1 years of salary. That means I fund the first 5.6 years myself (assuming interest only makes up for lower contributions in the beginning). This means the state's cost of my pension is zero for the first 5.6 years of my retirement assuming the government invests the money poorly which I have every reason to believe they will. Your ideas of what teachers get couldn't be farther from the truth.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 09-21-2013 at 06:52 AM..
LOL. Do you not realize that every company is not the same? I'm telling YOU what "I" had as an engineer and your response is to tell me I never worked as one??? Seriously???
Sorry, you have that wrong. I worked for 17 years as an engineer, mostly in product design and release and testing. I had a pension plan I was not required to pay into when I was an engineer. I had the option of paying 1.5% of my wage into the plan and upping my pension to from 1.25% of some average final salary times the number of years I worked to 1.5% of my salary times the number of years I worked and paid into the plan. I also had a match on my 401K for most years I worked as an engineer that varied from 1% on 2% contributed to 5% on 10% contributed I always too advantage of. It was a pretty good deal.
As a teacher, I contribute 7% of my income to get the 1.25% (at least I think it's 1.25% as I'm on some hybrid plan. It might be less.) I'm also required to contribute 4% into accounts that are matched at 3% because I won't get medical when I retire and I get a lower pension amount.
again, you said you did not pay into a pension plan. I called BS. I have never heard of a free retirement. were you a government engineer? a 2% 401k match is a joke. that's what I get. I put much more of the money I earn into it so I can try to max out my 401k contribution at $16,500 a year.
I also make other foolish right wing financial decisions, like buying homes I can afford.
I don't know about other Democrats, but the money isn't being spent the way I would like for it to be spent. Here in GA, each teacher gets $100 for the year to spend on supplies. Personally, I think she needs $500 because I don't think she should be spending her own money for her classroom.
I think money should be spent on making sure that the materials remain in good shape (desks, chairs, computers, etc.), common supplies (copy paper, ink, construction paper, etc.), and doing a deep cleaning at least 2 a year.
If we get the businesses, parents, and politicians out of the school system and have teachers (not administrators) create a nationwide curriculum, we would be able to make the starting salary of a teacher $50k.
Regarding college, the only reason I think tuition, housing, or meal plans should increase is if the school is expanding. Again, the money isn't spent the way it should. You have professors and administrators making 6-figures when they don't deserve it.
Republicans are hypocrites, too. You want less government, but you want to tell me whether or not I can get an abortion. You tell women to give the child up for adoption, but I have yet to meet a pro-lifer that has adopted a child. You don't want to talk about sex ed in school, but red states have the highest teen pregnancy rates (even though teen pregnancies are on the decline).
"Republicans are hypocrites, too. You want less government, but you want to tell me whether or not I can get an abortion"
You are grossly mis-informed. While many republicans are not in favor of abortion, if you choose to have one, you can but, you pay for it yourself and don't ask the taxpayers to pay for you being irresponsible.
Eh, you can have good and bad unions. In Chicago the teachers, on average, make about $70K and they constantly cry and scream for more money or strike. The problem with that is the money never makes it into the actual classrooms so it ends up costing more to educate a kid in Chicago vs the suburbs, but the results are worse and we can't even afford the current pension promises. The state constitution bars the pensions from ever being cut as well...
Check your average numbers. They often roll administrator's salaries into those numbers and stipends for doing things like coaching sports, being a department chair or sponsoring a club into those salaries which pushes them up for effect.
I'm not sure about teachers where you are, but I've had years when I spent over $1000 out of my own pocket on my classroom. I don't have to do that where I am because the district usually buys me what I need thanks, in part, to that union.
Where I am, the only issue I see with wages is that the bottom and top need to be brought closer together. The starting wage should be higher but the top should be lower. I think people have issues with the top wages teachers make given they are government employees. The problem is it takes so long to get to a livable wage and the last thing you need is a second job when you're trying to figure this job out. The first few years are insane. Then it becomes a manageable 60 hour a week job during the school year and you don't have to spend your summers fixing everything from last year.
One problem with this job is how we "train" teachers. It's get your degree, they hand you the keys to your classroom and tell you to teach. You get a mentor who talks to you once a week about what you're doing but you're really reinventing the wheel. Teachers should apprentice like engineers do. I was in training for 3 years as an engineer. Teachers should be handed a years worth of lesson plans from the previous teacher. They should follow what was done before while they get the hang of classroom management and dealing with parents. Only after a year or two of teaching the way it was done before should they start tinkering with how things are taught. Learn what those before you did that worked first then change it to your style.
I am so glad I teach in the internet days. So many teachers have put what works for them out there and I can draw from that. Some day, if I stay in teaching, I'll be putting things out there that other teachers will take. At least I hope that happens. I went to a math seminar this summer and talked about one lesson plan I do on the trig functions and I had several teachers come up and ask me for the lesson plan. That made me feel good. I found something that works that I could share but I need 180 something's that work to cover the entire school year.
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