59 dead in Muslim terrorist attack - liberals are silent. (elect, government, claim)

[dsjj251]

Originally Posted by Magritte25

On the other hand, just because something is said in the Bible or the Quran doesn't mean modern followers believe/follow those verses. Let's be fair here, ok?

There are extremist from both religions that follow those teachers to the letter, but what you are saying is actually my point, there are 1.5 Billion muslims in the world, and yet they are all being judged by the actions of a couple hundred.

[dsjj251]

Originally Posted by Harrier

You claimed that the Bible contains a verse that instructs a husband to beat their wife if they do not listen.

None of those verses which you quoted fits the bill, which is why you had to lie.

We get that you hate people of faith - ay least be honest when you engage in your bigotry.

As for your nonsense that we are supposed to stone or burn people, you show yourself as foolish when you quote verses out of context of the Bible as a whole, and are acting exactly like the Pharisees whom Jesus criticized for being legalistic.

Any honest reading of the New Testament will make it abundantly clear that such actions by any member of a Christian marriage are not condoned by the Lord.

That is the problem with people such as yourself who mine the Bible for "ammunition" rather than truly seeking to understand it - you wind up demonstrating just how little you actually know, while pretending to pass yourself off as an expert.

Well lets get some things straight.

1. My examples do indeed tell of what i claimed in my original comment.

2. None of these quotes are out of context, every single one of them gives their context.

3. I never argued that the bible didnt contradict itself, i simply said it was in there. You said it wasnt and when you found out it was you made the " new Testament" argument that most people do when they find out they are wrong about the bible.

4. Not one time did i pass myself off as a expert, that was your interpretation after being proven wrong.

5. no, i dont hate religion of any kind, that is just you trolling for an argument and i dont even no why, ever since you came back from your ban, you have been hostile to anyone who disagrees with you, I havent even seen you speak of yourself in the 3rd person anyone. What is your problem ?

6. What in the hell does " seeking to understand it" even mean ? What other meaning is there to saying you should beat your wife if she speaks out of turn or hangs out with other men or if she isnt a virgin when she marries you ?

Are you claiming those are metaphors or have some other philosphical meaning ?

[HappyTexan]

And while foreign MSM report that American Somalis were involved, the State Dept and FBI report here that they have no evidence.

But it is known that al-Shabaab does recruit American Somali men from Minn.


Americans and Briton 'among mall attackers', says Kenyan foreign minister | World news | theguardian.com

[Harrier]

Originally Posted by dsjj251

Well lets get some things straight.

1. My examples do indeed tell of what i claimed in my original comment.

2. None of these quotes are out of context, every single one of them gives their context.

3. I never argued that the bible didnt contradict itself, i simply said it was in there. You said it wasnt and when you found out it was you made the " new Testament" argument that most people do when they find out they are wrong about the bible.

4. Not one time did i pass myself off as a expert, that was your interpretation after being proven wrong.

5. no, i dont hate religion of any kind, that is just you trolling for an argument and i dont even no why, ever since you came back from your ban, you have been hostile to anyone who disagrees with you, I havent even seen you speak of yourself in the 3rd person anyone. What is your problem ?

6. What in the hell does " seeking to understand it" even mean ?

Are you claiming those are metaphors or have some other philosphical meaning ?

The fact that you ask this question explains the inanity of the rest of your post, and is the only part of your post that makes a bit of sense.

You read the Bible with a closed mind, so it is no wonder that you don't understand what Jesus means when he said 'I have not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it" and "All of the law can be summed up as follows, love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your mind, and love your neighbor as yourself".

Since you approach the Word with hostility, then you dismiss those verses, because they don't aid in your smear campaign.

Open your mind and your heart.

Peace,

Harrier.

[Finn_Jarber]

Originally Posted by dsjj251

If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city. Deuteronomy 22:23-24

If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her ... and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And the damsel's father shall say ... these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. ... But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die. Deuteronomy 22:13-21


And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the *****, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire. Leviticus 21:9

When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her. Deuteronomy 25:11-12

Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go.Judges 19:24-25

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. I Corinthians 14:34-35

but lets all pretend the bible doesnt mistreat women. As i said before, just because your preacher skips a verse doesnt mean it isnt in the Bible.

You have not managed to back up your claims. Besides, pastors do not teach Christians to obey Jewish law, but to obey the teachings of Christ. This is why the religion is called Christianity

[Neuling]

Originally Posted by Griffis

Christianity certainly has a very bloody history which includes genocide, torture, and the killing of entire towns of people--men, women and children alike.

Obviously this isn't happening much in the modern world, aside from recent "troubles" in Ireland, the "ethnic cleansing" of Muslims in Bosnia a couple decades back, the occasional abortion doctor being murdered and things like that which are really relatively rare, fringe activities.

But from its inception to about 4 or 500 years ago? Plenty of blood and violence in Christianity.

Remember Islam is about 500 years younger than Christianity.

I'm not giving Islamist extremism a pass. Trust me, I believe members of the Taliban should be killed on sight for example.

But the really radical, zealous, suicide bombers are not representative of the entirety of Muslims around the globe anymore than Westboro is indicative of Christians as a whole.

In truth, for all the good it CAN do, religion can also be twisted to justify all kinds of atrocities, and it has been, and not just within one specific religion.

I think most people adhering to different religions will only manage to get along once the religion has become only an empty ritual and their humanity and common sense have taken over. That is why we have relative peace in Europe, most people are not strict Christians anymore, but believe in all kinds of things that Jesus would probably shake his head about

[Neuling]

Originally Posted by Harrier

Israel is a nation constantly under attack by Hamas rockets and Islamic extremist suicide bombers.

It is trying to survive against enemies whose stated objective is to obliterate Israel from the planet.

Never again.

Israel (and the US) itself is responsible for most of the hate it gets. And I agree with those saying modern Israel should never have been founded down there in the first place, it was like turning back time for some people, at the expense of others. The world should have given the Jews a piece of Europe instead.

Originally Posted by dsjj251

Alot of the treatment of women in that part of the world is cultural,not religious.

Also, the Qur'an and the Bible have many of the same passages, including on how to treat women. Just because your preacher skips the line about beating your wife when she doesnt listen does not mean that the line isnt there.

Yep. Most people don't read the bible, anyway. They listen to the kitschy stuff their preachers quote on Sundays, and that's it.
One might even say most Christians are good people despite their religion Secularization is a key development that most Muslims still have to go through.

[Icy Tea]

I just learned an interesting bit of info about these terrorists in Kenya. Apparently many of them are ex Somalis. In Tom Hanks latest movie, the Somali pirates are actual Somalis. They're refugees from Somali who have relocated to Minneapolis Minnesota. The terrorists have actually recruited some of these same refugees and its believed that some of the terrorists involved in the Kenyan mall shooting are naturalized US citizens from Somalia.
Just something to worry about.

[Oleg Bach]

Being an old school Christian at heart...I am getting extremely tired of our Christian fanatics posting endless scripture ...that goes on and on - as if they are going to influence those they consider infidels...If Christians want to do some good...keep your title private- Join a good NGO...and get out in the world and do some good...maybe volunteer your time and build a school in some depressed back water of a nation. I can't stand to see half the bible posted as our Christian scholars here on CD endlessly show their scriptural knowledge...it's tiresome.

[burdell]

Originally Posted by Harrier

If this was done by a white lone shooter, the liberals here would be all over the story, shamelessly trashing any white male, and likely trying to paint them as conservatives, despite the evidence that that the white shooters and bombers in mass attacks that took place in the U.S. during the past few years have had Democratic Party ideologies.

Muslim extremists attack an upscale Nairobi mall in Kenya, take hostages, and kill nearly 3 score in total of people, and the left is deafeningly silent.

Sure - deflect by accusing Harrier of politicizing a tragedy.

You have no back up - when you would do the exact same thing, as illustrated by Harrier in paragraph #1, had the circumstances been different, in specific ways.

Liberals are silent?

WHAT are conservatives saying?

Calling for another meaningless, unnecessary war of choice yet?

Feigning outrage over the very same Muslim extremists they utterly failed to go after post 9/11?

Choosing instead to pursue a secular leader who was himself an enemy of those Muslim extremists?

Just what are the self-Righteous saying that's constructive while Liberals are silent as you allege?