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Sorry but I feel black people in the USA are far more integrated Economically, politically as well as socially. You'll find whites as well as Hispanics and other races living in places like Harlem NYC, Watts LA and many other lower income neigbourhoods in other cities around the country. There are also lots of famous mixed race American people proving that integration is alive and well in the USA. There are many interracial relationships, marriages and whites here with native American and African ancestry.
Speaking of poverty, as a UK citizen, born and raised. I've had my experience of living in poverty there. I would rather be poor in the USA than the UK.
From what ive experienced and seen, its easier to get out of poverty in the USA than in the UK. Jay Zee, 50 cents, Elvis Presley, Aaron Spelling and many others, as well as other moderately successful people have proved that. Almost all my friends and relatives are unemployed in the UK, where as in the US and Caribbean vise versa they all have jobs. Not one being unemployed.
More chances of getting a job here.
There is more social mobility. you can be a nobody today, and somebody tomorrow. Its easier to start your own business, and promote your talents and ideas without being dismissed or sneered at. You can live a middleclass lifestyle here without a college degree. I have my own home, business and a job, and at the same time I'm able to afford after school programs such as music and ballet lessons for my daughters. Ive enrolled them to participate in the 'nutcracker'
Less vandalism among the poor, more respect for peoples property. In some parts of the country, the poor live in an apartment complex with a swimming pool, gym, tennis court, laundry, and kids playground, with a night patrol security officer.
There is a more optimistic and positive vibe here.
The USA is NOT a boring country. More land mass, natural resources, innovation, different climates in different parts of the country, with more than one world class city, There is so much to do and see. More freedom. You don't have to stay static in one place, even if you are poor.
Quality of life and the standard of living is higher among poor Americans regardless of race compared to the UK, as Cost of living is cheaper, and you can eat healthier, food and dwellings is cheaper.
Ive worked with the elderly, both in the UK and USA and found them to be healthier, stronger and live a happier, wholesome life here than the ones in the UK.
Ive said it before, and I'll say it again. I would prefer to be poor in the USA than in the UK.
As easthome said, your post is just a page long personal opinion of yours.
Yet the FACTS are that many US cities are still unofficially, yet very segregated. I'm not just talking about the South either. British cities don't have massive black ghettos of poverty and despair. Generally poverty in Britain is less about race and more about social class. In America, many middle class white people may not even pass anywhere near the "hoods". It's social exclusion at its worst and this does not exist in the UK on the same scale. Not only that but many US ghettos are downright dangerous and would make any council estate look like Disney in comparison.
Your opinions are extremely biased against the UK because you had a bad experience. Yet poor people in Britain are far better off with free healthcare, cheaper higher education, etc. Many middle class (so called) Americans are up to their eyeballs in debt and are just a few paychecks away from poverty should something bad happen.
Oh and there have been black people in America since the dawn of the nation, but up until the 60's when the civil rights act was passed, they were second class citizens or slaves even further back. Much of Britain's black population arrived far more recently and have integrated very well. Oh and since Hispanics make up 1/3 of the population here, of course they are established and integrated.
I think what you are really debating is that it's easier to "make it" in the United States versus the UK, which is still very much up for debate if you're born poor. Both countries suck @ social mobility but for different reasons.
Red — White
Yellow — Hispanic
Blue — Black
Green — Asian
Black-White intermarriage rates are higher in the UK than the US.
You are just comparing it to just London alone. What about other cities and towns and the middle and upper class members of British society, are they also integrated, or are you just talking about the working class in London? The population in the UK 61-62 million maybe or little more compared to 300 million or more in the US. Take in concideration that there are more blacks in some places, But at the same time it does not mean that there is practiced segregation in that place, instead there are just happen to be more blacks concentrated in one area. For example, because they have migrating to the southern states from the north.
As easthome said, your post is just a page long personal opinion of yours.
Yet the FACTS are that many US cities are still unofficially, yet very segregated. I'm not just talking about the South either. British cities don't have massive black ghettos of poverty and despair. Generally poverty in Britain is less about race and more about social class. In America, many middle class white people may not even pass anywhere near the "hoods". It's social exclusion at its worst and this does not exist in the UK on the same scale. Not only that but many US ghettos are downright dangerous and would make any council estate look like Disney in comparison.
Your opinions are extremely biased against the UK because you had a bad experience. Yet poor people in Britain are far better off with free healthcare, cheaper higher education, etc. Many middle class (so called) Americans are up to their eyeballs in debt and are just a few paychecks away from poverty should something bad happen.
Oh and there have been black people in America since the dawn of the nation, but up until the 60's when the civil rights act was passed, they were second class citizens or slaves even further back. Much of Britain's black population arrived far more recently and have integrated very well. Oh and since Hispanics make up 1/3 of the population here, of course they are established and integrated.
I think what you are really debating is that it's easier to "make it" in the United States versus the UK, which is still very much up for debate if you're born poor. Both countries suck @ social mobility but for different reasons.
Bullsh$t! its also about race in the UK. There is a lot of social exclusion. In America, many middle class white people may not even pass anywhere near the hood? Ex president Bill Clinton head quarters is in Harlem. Many whites as well as other races have and at present practice business in the hood. Its much safer to walk the streets of NYC than London. Poor people in the USA are NOT excluded from healthcare and higher education. And higher education in the UK is not cheap. Many middle class Brits are up to their eyeballs in dept and at the same time many can't afford a home of their own.
As for slavery, Liverpool, London and Bristol were slave ports. and blacks have been on the British soil since Queen Elizabeth 1st reign.
I'm just comparing, speaking from my own experience of living here. I have no animosity towards the UK. I dont hate the country. Had fond memories growing up there, living in a unnerving, conservative Anglican environment. I have no regrets. When I become of age, my values, interest and outlook on life changed which conflicted with many people who had different expectations of me there. I wanted more out life. I like the UK but she often failed to deliver the goods. Not just for many of my black UK counterparts, but also for many of her own and others living there. My feelings towards her is one of indifference. I'm not interested. She doesn't inspire nor motivate me the way the USA does, and her class conscious mentality and color bar on jobs and promotion has gotten old.
Bullsh$t! its also about race in the UK. There is a lot of social exclusion. In America, many middle class white people may not even pass anywhere near the hood? Ex president Bill Clinton head quarters is in Harlem. Many whites as well as other races have and at present practice business in the hood. Its much safer to walk the streets of NYC than London. Poor people in the USA are NOT excluded from healthcare and higher education. And higher education in the UK is not cheap. Many middle class Brits are up to their eyeballs in dept and at the same time many can't afford a home of their own.
As for slavery, Liverpool, London and Bristol were slave ports. and blacks have been on the British soil since Queen Elizabeth 1st reign.
Youre sprouting rubbish I'm afraid - do you honestly believe its safer to walk the streets of New York than it is London! I'm amazed, are you seriously suggesting there are 'no go areas' in London!!!?? Are you also trying to claim that 'poor people' in the UK are excluded from society or higher education!!!!!? Now I can't claim to know anything about racism in the US because I don't live there, however I do live in the UK, I am Caucasion my girlfriend and kids are black and I can categorically say that we, as a family and individually have NEVER suffered any kind of racism, my kids have not been excluded from any aspect at their school, I am not saying that there are no racist people in the UK (there are people with prejudices the whole world over) in fact what I am saying is not really about racism at all but all I am trying to say is that there does seem to be a difference when it comes to integration of immigrants or poeple with recent immigrant family history between over there and over here - neither my girlfriend or the kids or my girlfriends family or anybody else Ive ever worked with or went to school with that were black skinned have ever referred to themselves as 'African English' but simply English, of course this doesn't just concern the colour of ones skin, English people with Italian or Irish heritage will also not call themselves 'Italian English' or 'Irish English' but simply 'English' it just seems to be a different 'mindset' is all I'm saying.
Bullsh$t! its also about race in the UK. There is a lot of social exclusion. In America, many middle class white people may not even pass anywhere near the hood? Ex president Bill Clinton head quarters is in Harlem. Many whites as well as other races have and at present practice business in the hood. Its much safer to walk the streets of NYC than London. Poor people in the USA are NOT excluded from healthcare and higher education. And higher education in the UK is not cheap. Many middle class Brits are up to their eyeballs in dept and at the same time many can't afford a home of their own.
As for slavery, Liverpool, London and Bristol were slave ports. and blacks have been on the British soil since Queen Elizabeth 1st reign.
Care to back up what you're saying with some actual statistics that prove what you're saying is true? You're big on rhetoric but small on substance I'm afraid.
You're not totally off ball in everything you're saying, even though you've clearly put no effort or research at all into what you're posting about. Social mobility is higher in the US than in the UK - slightly. The difference is negligible, and both are at the bottom end of developed countries in this regard. I don't believe, though, that being poor in the US is better than being poor in the UK. The UK undeniably has a much larger social net for those who find themselves out of work or have very little or no disposable income - I can vouch for that, having come from a family who found themselves in such a position of needing state help to live.
This is also demonstrated by the fact that the UK has reduced a lot more of its poverty than the US - which has reduced comparatively very little.
The UK also redistributes more money to the poor in the form of benefits:
Obviously this may be a good thing to many Americans who might not be so keen on the idea of a very extensive welfare state, but it's definitely a major help to people on low incomes or who are unemployed, and regardless of whether or not it is easier to escape poverty in the US (by a very, very small margin), poor people in the UK receive far more help to actually live, and quite frankly, given how small the difference is between social mobility in the two countries, I'd much rather take my chances here, if I were living in poverty.
Oh, and we cannot forget that poverty levels in the US are quite a bit higher than in the UK - which suggests that even though social mobility is a little higher in the US, it isn't having much of an impact. The UK has even managed to reduce its poverty levels, between 1995 and 2010.
I'm not really sure about racial segregation and poverty as official figures from the ONS are hard to find. Some races fare better than others. From graphs I've seen on certain poverty websites, Indians in the UK are not far behind whites in terms of poverty and are usually middle-class and reside in middle-class areas that were once primarily white but are now heavily mixed. Also, in the UK, we split black people in two groups: Black African and Black Caribbean. Black Caribbeans fare a lot better than their Black African counterparts. According to poverty.org.uk, 50% of Black Africans live in a low-income household, though this is not the same as the relative poverty rate which is why a direct comparison is not easy.
I've tried finding a map similar to the London one for other UK cities but to no avail. It's probably possible to create one though - In fact, I could create one for my city using the smallest data areas possible, but that would take a while.
Oh, and as Jezer mentions, there are loads of laws in the UK stopping people discriminating against certain races. A woman was even taken to court for a racist rant that was recorded on the Tube. It's something that is not treated flippantly.
Edit--
The ONS do have some race maps for small data areas, but nothing like the London map. This is for Leeds (darker the colour, the more people as a percentage of the population):
Black African/Caribbean:
White British:
Seems like the black population of Leeds is fairly widespread and areas with high black populations always have high white populations too. Only a few areas in Leeds have a white-minority population - most usually have a small white majority. Bradford is probably a good example of a city that is quite racially segregated though.
Last edited by dunno what to put here; 11-22-2013 at 08:07 AM..
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