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An economically healthy, large middle class is a historical anomaly.
I wouldn't call it an anomaly, I would rather call it a minority of societies. During Greek democracy, there was a healthy artisan class. So was during the Roman Republic. Middle class came to prominence during the Industrial revolution in the Western Societies, Japan, South Korea, Australia.
A huge middle class is also emerging in India and China.
The vast majority of societies since the Iron Age have been tyrannical societies, Socialist included. In these tyrannical societies you have the ruling elite ruling over the vast working stiffs, the poor.
The tyrannical word -- many people over-react to the word. Tyrannical Societies are the ones where wealth and political power are concentrated in a small ruling elite, often headed by a single person. It's also called a Dictatorship.
In the history of humankind tyranny is the most common form of Rule. Maybe some can explain this for us as to why.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie1946
The US and Europe are moving back into the historical norm.
I agree that US and Western Europe are sliding back into tyrannical societies. However, Europe is a lot more experienced than US dealing with tyranny, and have constructed political and Governance mechanisms to prevent or inhibit tyranny. US, with our current political structure is fertile ground. In fact is the most logical development. The road to tyranny is pretty open right now, especially in light of a disorganized and ineffective opposition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie1946
There is nothing to stop that process.
I am not sure if that is true -- sure there are arrestors, inhibitors, obstacles to our slide to tyranny. US Constitution was a demonstration of the human will and brain power bending the historical trajectory. Why wouldn't it happen again .. that another human enterprise can reverse or divert our trajectory to tyranny?
I wouldn't call it an anomaly, I would rather call it a minority of societies. During Greek democracy, there was a healthy artisan class. So was during the Roman Republic. Middle class came to prominence during the Industrial revolution in the Western Societies, Japan, South Korea, Australia.
A huge middle class is also emerging in India and China.
The vast majority of societies since the Iron Age have been tyrannical societies, Socialist included. In these tyrannical societies you have the ruling elite ruling over the vast working stiffs, the poor.
The tyrannical word -- many people over-react to the word. Tyrannical Societies are the ones where wealth and political power are concentrated in a small ruling elite, often headed by a single person. It's also called a Dictatorship.
In the history of humankind tyranny is the most common form of Rule. Maybe some can explain this for us as to why.
Spoiler
I agree that US and Western Europe are sliding back into tyrannical societies. However, Europe is a lot more experienced than US dealing with tyranny, and have constructed political and Governance mechanisms to prevent or inhibit tyranny.
US, with our current political structure is fertile ground. In fact is the most logical development. The road to tyranny is pretty open right now, especially in light of a disorganized and ineffective opposition.
I am not sure if that is true -- sure there are arrestors, inhibitors, obstacles to our slide to tyranny. US Constitution was a demonstration of the human will and brain power bending the historical trajectory. Why wouldn't it happen again .. that another human enterprise can reverse or divert our trajectory to tyranny?
A huge middle class emerging in the 2 most populated countries on the planet is still not much of a middle class in comparison to their populations and already those middle classes are struggling. In both those nations, male children are desired and female babies/fetuses are discarded where possible. The social strains are becoming more evident daily based on that tradition alone.
Europe has been awful at dealing with tyranny. It took the US in WW II to finally give them peace (in the west)and that only with many US troops stationed on their soil even today. Perversely, the Russians gave the east peace mixed with tyranny. Honest journalists in Europe note this and have said so all along. Europe did little or nothing to stop the violence in the Balkans. Not until the US arrived did things calm down. Regardless of how any of us feel about the so-called "American Empire", our power has kept the lid on in many places though uneasily. I wish it were different but reality tends to rule.
I think the human norm is toward tyranny. Exerting power over someone else is better than drugs. There are way too many among us who have Nazi tendencies. Scary ain't it.
What I don't understand is how and why they get elected? The GOP gets many poor and lower middle votes. They raise money from the same people they step on.
Tell that to the major cities in NJ that vote dems every time and are still struggling to survive while the people they vote in (dems) become rich and corrupt.
The Communications Act of 1934 stated that all people in the United States shall have access to “rapid, efficient, nationwide … communications service with adequate facilities at reasonable charges.â€
The Communications Act of 1934 stated that all people in the United States shall have access to “rapid, efficient, nationwide … communications service with adequate facilities at reasonable charges.â€
A huge middle class emerging in the 2 most populated countries on the planet is still not much of a middle class in comparison to their populations and already those middle classes are struggling. In both those nations, male children are desired and female babies/fetuses are discarded where possible. The social strains are becoming more evident daily based on that tradition alone.
Europe has been awful at dealing with tyranny. It took the US in WW II to finally give them peace (in the west)and that only with many US troops stationed on their soil even today. Perversely, the Russians gave the east peace mixed with tyranny. Honest journalists in Europe note this and have said so all along. Europe did little or nothing to stop the violence in the Balkans. Not until the US arrived did things calm down. Regardless of how any of us feel about the so-called "American Empire", our power has kept the lid on in many places though uneasily. I wish it were different but reality tends to rule.
I think the human norm is toward tyranny. Exerting power over someone else is better than drugs. There are way too many among us who have Nazi tendencies. Scary ain't it.
You may be interested in the documentary "The World Without US".
Europe has been awful at dealing with tyranny. It took the US in WW II to finally give them peace (in the west)and that only with many US troops stationed on their soil even today.
Europe's experience with tyranny goes back since states were created. This is an experience of thousands of years, of a system improved through trial and tribulations, and a lot of blood shed. But we are here now:
1- Most of Europe has some sort of proportional legislative body, which allows crazy fringes to participate in power plays, yet keeps the Legislative body fragmented and unstable.
2- If not all, most Europe has a "2 rooster in the henhouse" executive. Of course many presidents or kings have ceremonial functions, while prime-ministers run the Govt, but yet, in crisis situations this dual-person executive has proven to less powerful than a single-person executive, ala-US President.
That is why I said that US currently is a lot more prone to sliding to tyranny than Europe is. In light of a very disorganized opposition, that opening is getting wider everyday.
It would be so refreshing to get an actual Democratic progressive elected to the presidency. Every time I read about Elizabeth Warren I hope she says she's running.
Oh, yeah. Things have really improved under Obama and the Democrats, haven't they?
And, oh, by the way, people are just beginning to find out that "pre-existing condition" coverage is going to be very expensive! LOL They thought it was going to be free!!!
Here comes "single payer" health "care." And, long lines, poor facilities, doctor shortages, 'death panels.' No service.
The ACA isn't single payer, it's a Republican/capitalist solution to increase corporate profits while insuring the uninsured. It is an American-style 'win-win', at least in the minds of Nixonian Republicans like Obama. IMO it is an interim step towards single payer, which some American capitalists are inadvertently ensuring through their insatiable greed/love of outsourcing.
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