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So it appears the debt limit will not be raised, and that is a fight the Republicans want to have. We have cut spending quite a bit. However, if we dont raise the limit, the stock market will drop like crazy, and interest rates will rise. If interest rates rise, it increases our debt dramatically. So all that fighting will put us in a worse position. I dont understand the logic. Also with Obamacare, I dont like it either.They had four years to put forth a credible alternative, or fix the flaws, AND NOTHING has been offered. I dont think they realize the effect this will have on our economy. Everyone says öh we've had shutdowns before, and yes we have. The difference is, during the former shutdowns, the appropriation bills had been passed, so it wasnt as comprehensive of a shutdown that this will be. I wish Congress had to forego their pay, then we might see something accomplished.
if we dont raise the limit, the stock market will drop like crazy, and interest rates will rise. If interest rates rise, it increases our debt dramatically.
That is going to happen anyway when the Fed stops printing over $1T per year.
If O had a brain, he would let it happen this way and blame it on Republicans rather than waiting for the Caddy to hit the wall at top speed and take the hit himself.
So it appears the debt limit will not be raised, and that is a fight the Republicans want to have. We have cut spending quite a bit. However, if we dont raise the limit, the stock market will drop like crazy, and interest rates will rise. If interest rates rise, it increases our debt dramatically. So all that fighting will put us in a worse position. I dont understand the logic. Also with Obamacare, I dont like it either.They had four years to put forth a credible alternative, or fix the flaws, AND NOTHING has been offered. I dont think they realize the effect this will have on our economy. Everyone says öh we've had shutdowns before, and yes we have. The difference is, during the former shutdowns, the appropriation bills had been passed, so it wasnt as comprehensive of a shutdown that this will be. I wish Congress had to forego their pay, then we might see something accomplished.
The conservative party is out of control and run by insane people.
They have no leverage in none of these fights. I don't get why they don't understand this.
Look here is the basic dynamic on the debt ceiling.
conservatives and Democrats and the President all agree that the debt ceiling has to be increased. There is no disagreement on this basic fact.
Now what is there to bargain over to raise the debt ceiling when everyone agrees it has to happen?
But an answer to this simple question will both confound and confuse conservatives.
In order for their to be a negotiation either both parties would have to want something or one party would have to force with political power or entice the other party to the negotiating table with some kind of grand concession.
Now remember the power dynamic the Democratic party controls 2/3rds of the government, they are just coming off the 2012 elections where they won the presidency and gained seats in both houses of Congress.
They don't want to bargain. They just want the debt ceiling raised. Now what are conservatives going to give them so that they'll negotiate to destroy their health care bill? You'd think enticing the Democrats with some concession would be in the conservative playbook to destroy the healthcare bill, but that's not what's going to happen.
Instead conservatives will demand that Democrats make concessions while the Democrats get nothing in return to do what conservatives have already said has to happen which is raising the debt ceiling.
Then dumb conservatives will get on tv and say we don't want to default on the debt all the while knowing that the only leverage they have is threatening to default on the debt if they don't get their way.
The media will play it mostly being the conservatives fault, but still partly blame the Democratic party.
Then when the Democrats don't fold, conservatives will vote to raise the debt ceiling or be responsible for destroying the economy.
Now instead of just going straight voting to raise the debt ceiling conservatives will insist that we go through more insanity and see how insane they can be. SMH.
So it appears the debt limit will not be raised, and that is a fight the Republicans want to have. We have cut spending quite a bit. However, if we dont raise the limit, the stock market will drop like crazy, and interest rates will rise. If interest rates rise, it increases our debt dramatically. So all that fighting will put us in a worse position. I dont understand the logic. Also with Obamacare, I dont like it either.They had four years to put forth a credible alternative, or fix the flaws, AND NOTHING has been offered. I dont think they realize the effect this will have on our economy. Everyone says öh we've had shutdowns before, and yes we have. The difference is, during the former shutdowns, the appropriation bills had been passed, so it wasnt as comprehensive of a shutdown that this will be. I wish Congress had to forego their pay, then we might see something accomplished.
If the Republicans don't raise the debt limit Wall St. isn't going to fund their campaigns. Which means... no more Republican party. They might as well hang up their hats and join the Whig party in the dustbin of history.
If O had a brain, he would let it happen this way and blame it on Republicans rather than waiting for the Caddy to hit the wall at top speed and take the hit himself.
Obama doesn't have the cojones to take that kind of a hit. He'll just vote present and pass it on to the next president to deal with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679
If the Republicans don't raise the debt limit Wall St. isn't going to fund their campaigns. Which means... no more Republican party. They might as well hang up their hats and join the Whig party in the dustbin of history.
Dustbin of history, how dramatic. So what's your suggestion, just let the Democrats spend uncontrollably? BTW, serious Wall Street investors know this is all just bs political theater, and the good ones have their 10 favorite stocks picked out and ready to buy in case we tank a couple hundred points. You should too.
Liberals need to wake up to the fact that the national debt is already far too high and should not be driven up even further. The runaway spending needs to stop.
This is my prediction. These freakin GOP idiots are going to severely damage the entire world's economy. Twenty freakin azzhats in one house of congress are going to have a huge negative impact on me here in Canada. WE can expect there terrorist political actions are going to cause a recession, completely stop and reverse the recovery and fry the USA's credit rating. A rise in your debt interest rates is one of the worst possible scenarios.
Now, anyone with even half a brain knows full well who the culprit is here. It's 100% the GOP. It well demonstrates the depth of their depraved and destructiveness that they have the freakin gall to blame the Democrats for their own stupid shenanigans.
A good illustration of just how stupid these idiots are is this. They are constantly referring to Obamacare as a BILL. They don't even understand politics 101. It's a freakin LAW not a bill.
I predict the GOP will lose the house in the coming elections and lose more seats in the Senate also. Do they somehow think they are doing the conservative cause one tiny little bit of good by their completely nutbar stunts?
I strongly advocate that us, the rest of the world should completely reject the USD as the reserve currency from the day the US government is dictated to by 20 brain dead individuals in the US house of representatives. Then if they want to destroy their economy, it will not impact the rest of us so badly. AS a result of their insanity, prices will quadruple for everything in the USA.
Obama doesn't have the cojones to take that kind of a hit. He'll just vote present and pass it on to the next president to deal with.
Dustbin of history, how dramatic. So what's your suggestion, just let the Democrats spend uncontrollably?
This is the debt limit we are talking about, not the budget. What uncontrollable spending are you talking about though? The IOU's that Medicare has been cashing in? Obamacare? Social security?
BTW, serious Wall Street investors know this is all just bs political theater, and the good ones have their 10 favorite stocks picked out and ready to buy in case we tank a couple hundred points. You should too.
The major Wall st players still aren't going to fund a campaign if we default on our obligations. As much as I want Wall St. out of politics, no politician can win without their support ($$$).
Liberals need to wake up to the fact that the national debt is already far too high and should not be driven up even further. The runaway spending needs to stop.
Raising the debt ceiling is to pay the bills that have already come due. What you are suggesting is that the government say - nope, sorry not going to pay the bills, they are too big. Sounds like you are advocating for bankruptcy.
Liberals need to wake up to the fact that the national debt is already far too high and should not be driven up even further. The runaway spending needs to stop.
What runaway spending? Medicare, SS, and the military consume 2/3 or our budget.
Last edited by lycos679; 09-30-2013 at 10:12 PM..
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