Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
One thing that always confused me...I knew a guy, black, from the islands, he was very well educated, had impeccable manners, sharp. He was definitely not ghetto raised. Yet, he benefitted from Affirmative Action programs, meant primarily for "African-Americans", who had historically been abused, had their entire family system ravaged by slave trade, been treated unfairly for centuries...this man, raised in an upper middle class Carribean Island home, did not have this type of history, basically waltzed into the US, and benefits from programs for "African Americans", which he was not...is not....I can see the reason blacks in the US would dislike island blacks.
And yes, he considered most blacks in the US to be uneducated, illiterate, and low class. He was probably one of the most "racist" people I ever met!
Last edited by jasper12; 10-07-2013 at 09:08 PM..
Reason: Edit
What I have heard is that the Africans don't like the blacks from here. They say that the American blacks are lazy and don't realize how great they have it. This is coming from African immigrants who are here to study. They all com here to get ahead.
However, i guess you just overlook the fact that many Black American families are broken without fathers might have something to do with slavery and hundreds of years of oppression that deliberately destoyed the Black family and the resulting consequences that have lasted until this very day
i knew what your intentions were in the first place, i tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but now i see that was undeserved!
BTW, there are plenty of 'broken' white families as well...
Huh? What does slavery (if are even descendants, which most likely, you are not) have to do with being irresponsible in 2013? How is it that people from much worse circumstances, circumstances that happened, oh maybe 5 years ago, 10 years ago? are able to move past it and be successful.
You need to stop listening to these men, these "leaders" who are trying to keep you down. There is no excuse for it other than playing the victim. Obama is just as bad, he claims "doors locked when I walked by" because he's heard other black men say that (except it actually happened to them). I am a white looking female and I've had doors locked when I walked by, I've been followed in shops, I've been discriminated against for jobs. It's just part of life. I didn't use those things to say "Oh well, I came from a corrupt, crap country where we had no rights, no education, no opportunity and even no food so I'm just going to cry about it and wish people to give me free stuff". No! We work hard and move on. Period.
So I ask you again. What does this have to do with my point that the children of West Indian immigrants are virtually indistinguishable from African Americans?
Look, I know you want to create as much distance between West Indians and African Americans as possible ("We are not like them!!!! We do not share their culture!!!!"), but that's just not the reality. West Indians have assimilated into African American culture much the same way the Italians and Irish assmilated into "white" mainstream culture. There's not as much difference between an Irish Catholic and the average white person today as there was 100 years ago. Similarly, there's not as much difference between African Americans and West Indians as there was 100 years ago. For the most part, the West Indian identity has become a part of the AA identity, particularly in the Northeastern U.S. where the West Indian population is the largest.
I'm sorry if this hurts your feelings.
I'm surprised people are arguing this point so strongly. I thought this was a given. Caribbean Blacks have been assimilating into the larger Black culture for decades. I suspect a similar thing will happen to Africans too but it may take a little longer though.
What I have heard is that the Africans don't like the blacks from here. They say that the American blacks are lazy and don't realize how great they have it. This is coming from African immigrants who are here to study. They all com here to get ahead.
Of course the ambitious and upper-class Africans who come here to study will fare better than your average American of any race, period. I am sure there are Africans who are just as lazy and uninspired as anyone they might encounter in this country.
I'm surprised people are arguing this point so strongly. I thought this was a given. Caribbean Blacks have been assimilating into the larger Black culture for decades. I suspect a similar thing will happen to Africans too but it may take a little longer though.
Sometimes people want to argue for the sake of arguing. Or they want to amplify immaterial differences to the level of materiality.
Many of Hip Hop's early pioneers were of West Indian ancestry (Kool Herc, Doug E. Fresh, Grandmaster Flash, Afrika Bambaataa, KRS-One, etc.), but no one even thinks about that. Hip Hop would not have developed the way it did without the West Indian influence. And yet we consider Hip Hop to be part of African American culture.
And as I stated, there probably was a good bit of tension between Black Americans and West Indians when they started to arrive in Harlem between 1910 and 1920. That makes sense since you had two groups with different backgrounds who hardly knew much about the other. But those differences dissipated rather quickly. West Indians made valuable contributions during the Harlem Renaissance (e.g., Claude McKay). More infamously, you had numbers runners like Stephanie St. Clair engaged in organized crime with kingpin Bumpy Johnson (who was born and raised in South Carolina).
So West Indians have been a part of the African American cultural fabric for a long, long time now. In New York City, the lines between the two cultures are blurry since you have a ton of people who share both ancestries (Q-Tip, Kerry Washington, LL Cool J). In other cities, the West Indian population is not even large enough to really be noticeable. In a city like Savannah, which I'm sure has a miniscule West Indian population, the few West Indians there likely blend into the larger black population rather quickly. I mean, the statistical odds for most Black Americans even knowing more than a couple of people of West Indian ancestry are not high, so I don't see how you could really beef with people you hardly ever interact with in the first place.
Sometimes people want to argue for the sake of arguing. Or they want to amplify immaterial differences to the level of materiality.
Many of Hip Hop's early pioneers were of West Indian ancestry (Kool Herc, Doug E. Fresh, Grandmaster Flash, Afrika Bambaataa, KRS-One, etc.), but no one even thinks about that. Hip Hop would not have developed the way it did without the West Indian influence. And yet we consider Hip Hop to be part of African American culture.
And as I stated, there probably was a good bit of tension between Black Americans and West Indians when they started to arrive in Harlem between 1910 and 1920. That makes sense since you had two groups with different backgrounds who hardly knew much about the other. But those differences dissipated rather quickly. West Indians made valuable contributions during the Harlem Renaissance (e.g., Claude McKay). More infamously, you had numbers runners like Stephanie St. Clair engaged in organized crime with kingpin Bumpy Johnson (who was born and raised in South Carolina).
So West Indians have been a part of the African American cultural fabric for a long, long time now. In New York City, the lines between the two cultures are blurry since you have a ton of people who share both ancestries (Q-Tip, Kerry Washington, LL Cool J). In other cities, the West Indian population is not even large enough to really be noticeable. In a city like Savannah, which I'm sure has a miniscule West Indian population, the few West Indians there likely blend into the larger black population rather quickly. I mean, the statistical odds for most Black Americans even knowing more than a couple of people of West Indian ancestry are not high, so I don't see how you could really beef with people you hardly ever interact with in the first place.
All this is very true.
Especially in regards to hip hop which so many try to lambast as being created by black Americans. West Indians were the pivotal players in the creation of hip hop music, which many feel is a direct reflection of black American culture.
And Claude McKay was a very famous author during the Harlem Renaissance. There are a lot of intermingling between black American and West Indians immigrating to America. One of my favorite people in black history is Hubert Harrison, who was considered one of the greatest black thinkers of his time. He was an atheist and was labeled "The Black Socrates."
Quote:
An immigrant from St. Croix at age 17, Harrison played significant
roles in the largest radical class and race movements in the United States. In
1912-14 he was the leading Black organizer in the Socialist Party of America . In 1917 he founded the Liberty League and The Voice, the first organization and the first newspaper of the race-conscious
“New Negro ” movement. From his Liberty League and Voice came the
core leadership of individuals and race-conscious program of the Garvey movement.[SIZE=2][3][/SIZE]
West Indians have been in this country for generations. I don't see why the OP and many on this thread would think that they and black Americans have some sort of on-going schism. Black America would not be what it is without the influence of West Indians. Our status as blacks in America are completely intertwined and connected.
And FYI, like the link states Harrison was a leader in the "New Negro Movement" in the early 1900s. A. Phillip Randolph, the labor organizer and member of the Socialist Party was actually the co-organizer of the 1963 March on Washington and he was a follower of Hubert Harrison as they shared many views and ideologies regarding race in America. The march was not initially focused on "racial equality" but of economic equality, something that gets overlooked due to labeling of our country of Dr. King as only being about peace and racial equality.
West Indians have been in this country for generations. I don't see why the OP and many on this thread would think that they and black Americans have some sort of on-going schism. Black America would not be what it is without the influence of West Indians. Our status as blacks in America are completely intertwined and connected.
What I'm more or less hearing is resistance from some who want to keep "West Indian" and "African American" as separate as possible. "West Indian" sounds more exotic than "regular" African American (or white for that matter) so lumping West Indians in with African Americans may jeopardize their uniqueness in their view. And that's funny because being West Indian in New York is not exotic at all. It may sound a bit more exotic in the American South or West.
And as I stated earlier, you would not know most second-generation West Indians are West Indian until carnival season (and I'm talking about real carnival in February and August...not Brooklyn Labor Day that's a joke by comparison).
Of course the ambitious and upper-class Africans who come here to study will fare better than your average American of any race, period. I am sure there are Africans who are just as lazy and uninspired as anyone they might encounter in this country.
This...and it rings true for so many immigrants. But look "back home" and there are plenty of their background who are lacking.
Especially in regards to hip hop which so many try to lambast as being created by black Americans. West Indians were the pivotal players in the creation of hip hop music, which many feel is a direct reflection of black American culture.
And Claude McKay was a very famous author during the Harlem Renaissance. There are a lot of intermingling between black American and West Indians immigrating to America. One of my favorite people in black history is Hubert Harrison, who was considered one of the greatest black thinkers of his time. He was an atheist and was labeled "The Black Socrates."
West Indians have been in this country for generations. I don't see why the OP and many on this thread would think that they and black Americans have some sort of on-going schism. Black America would not be what it is without the influence of West Indians. Our status as blacks in America are completely intertwined and connected.
And FYI, like the link states Harrison was a leader in the "New Negro Movement" in the early 1900s. A. Phillip Randolph, the labor organizer and member of the Socialist Party was actually the co-organizer of the 1963 March on Washington and he was a follower of Hubert Harrison as they shared many views and ideologies regarding race in America. The march was not initially focused on "racial equality" but of economic equality, something that gets overlooked due to labeling of our country of Dr. King as only being about peace and racial equality.
First off, hip-hop is not as simplified and redundant as you try to make it out to be! rap is a very regional artform and is not just characterized by NY!
second, i wouldn't declare hip-hop as very intertwined in Black American culture in the first place. you and BanjeYankee are over estimating and putting way too much weight on celebrities and pop culture when it comes to blacks in America and declaring that they are 100% representative of Black American culture its really ridiculous! are whites in America only characterized by Miley Cyrus and country/pop music? Please get a clue...
and like I said, Black Americans or American Blacks are different from Caribbean Americans or African Americans. we do not share the same heritage and lineage! yes there is cultural mixing, which is good, but there is still a significant distinction...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
its really ridiculous! are whites in America only characterized by Miley Cyrus and country/pop music? Please get a clue...