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Old 10-09-2013, 11:16 PM
 
27,120 posts, read 15,303,353 times
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I agree with that but comment on the President manipulating the public with such rhetoric.

"Hope", no, rather fear.
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Old 10-09-2013, 11:23 PM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
19,743 posts, read 22,641,589 times
Reputation: 24902
That's all politics unfortunately. Quite hope-less in my opinion.

In a sick way I kinda hope the markets tank to s*it and our bond prices reflect the mood of investors. Maybe that will shock the kids back from name calling on the recess field and back to class.

Neither side can hardly claim any moral ground in this matter.
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Old 10-10-2013, 12:16 AM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,677,756 times
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Absolutely the debt is far too high now, it would be pure stupidity to grow it even more. Control runaway spending, it's beyond ridiculous how much debt we have.
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Old 10-10-2013, 01:11 AM
 
26,143 posts, read 19,827,945 times
Reputation: 17241
Quote:
Originally Posted by claudhopper
Keep in mind, the Gov't doesn't own anything, we the people own the land, and ALLOW the govt to manage it.
No they dont BUT THEY THINK THEY DO!!!!! (And will try to take it)
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Old 10-10-2013, 01:15 AM
 
23,654 posts, read 17,503,740 times
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Default A great letter and so true-----

April 3, 2013
Senator Patty Murray
Senator Maria Cantwell
Washington, DC, 20510

Dear Senator:

I have tried to live by the rules my entire life. My father was a Command Sergeant Major, U.S. Army, who died of combat related stresses shortly after his retirement. It was he who instilled in me those virtues he felt important - honesty, duty, patriotism and obeying the laws of God and of our various governments. I have served my country, paid my taxes, worked hard, volunteered and donated my fair share of money, time and artifacts.

Today, as I approach my 79th birthday, I am heart-broken when I look at my country and my government. I shall only point out a very few things abysmally wrong which you can multiply by a thousand fold. I have calculated that all the money I have paid in income taxes my entire life cannot even keep the Senate barbershop open for one year! Only Heaven and a few tight-lipped actuarial types know what the Senate dining room costs the taxpayers. So please, enjoy your haircuts and meals on us.

Last year, the president spent an estimated $1.4 billion on himself and his family. The vice president spends $ millions on hotels. They have had 8 vacations so far this year! And our House of Representatives and Senate have become America's answer to the Saudi royal family. You have become the "perfumed princes and princesses" of our country.

In the middle of the night, you voted in the Affordable Health Care Act, a.k.a. "Obama Care," a bill which no more than a handful of senators or representatives read more than several paragraphs, crammed it down our throats, and then promptly exempted yourselves from it, substituting your own taxpayer-subsidized golden health care insurance.

You live exceedingly well, eat and drink as well as the "one percenters," consistently vote yourselves perks and pay raises while making 3.5 times the average U.S. individual income, and give up nothing while you (as well as the president and veep) ask us to sacrifice due to sequestration (for which, of course, you plan to blame the Republicans, anyway).

You understand very well the only two rules you need to know - (1) How to get elected, and (2) How to get re-elected. And you do this with the aid of an eagerly willing and partisan press, speeches permeated with a certain economy of truth, and by buying the votes of the greedy, the ill-informed and under-educated citizens (and non-citizens, too, many of whom do vote) who are looking for a handout rather than a job. Your so-called "safety net" has become a hammock for the lazy. And, what is it now, about 49 or 50 million on food stamps - pretty much all Democratic voters - and the program is absolutely rife with fraud with absolutely no congressional oversight?

I would offer that you are not entirely to blame. What changed you is the seductive environment of power in which you have immersed yourselves. It is the nature of both houses of Congress which requires you to subordinate your virtue in order to get anything done until you have achieved a leadership role. To paraphrase President Reagan, it appears that the second oldest profession (politics), bears a remarkably strong resemblance to the oldest.

As the hirsute first Baron John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton (1834 - 1902), English historian and moralist, so aptly and accurately stated, "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men." I'm only guessing that this applies to the female sex as well. Tell me, is there a more corrupt entity in this country than Congress?

While we middle class people continue to struggle, our government becomes less and less transparent, more and more bureaucratic, and ever so much more dictatorial, using Czars and Secretaries to tell us (just to mention a very few) what kind of light bulbs we must purchase, how much soda or hamburgers we can eat, what cars we can drive, gasoline to use and what health care we must buy. Countless thousands of pages of regulations strangle our businesses costing the consumer more and more every day.

As I face my final year, or so, with cancer, my president and my government tell me "You'll just have to take a pill," while you, Senator, your colleagues, the president, and other exulted government officials and their families will get the best possible health care on our tax dollars until you are called home by your Creator, while also enjoying a retirement beyond my wildest dreams, which of course, you voted for yourselves and we pay for.

The chances of you reading this letter are practically zero as your staff will not pass it on, but with a little luck, a form letter response might be generated by them with an auto signature applied, hoping we will believe that you, our senator or representative, has heard us and actually cares. This letter will, however, go online where many others will have the chance to read one person's opinion, rightly or wrongly, about this government, its administration and its senators and representatives.

I only hope that occasionally you might quietly thank the taxpayer for all the generous entitlements which you have voted yourselves, for which, by law, we must pay, unless, of course, it just goes on the $17 trillion national debt for which your children and ours, and your grandchildren and ours, ad infinitum, must eventually try to pick up the tab.

My final thoughts are that it must take a person who has either lost his or her soul, or conscience, or both, to seek re-election and continue to destroy this country I deeply love and put it so far in debt that we will never pay it off, while your lot improves by the minute, because of your power. For you, Senator, will never stand up to the rascals in your House who constantly deceive the American people. And that, my dear Senator, is how power has corrupted you and the entire Congress. The only answer to clean up this cesspool is term limits. This, of course, will kill the goose that lays your golden eggs. And woe be to him (or her) who would dare to bring it up.

Sincerely,
Bill Schoonover
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:38 AM
 
4,155 posts, read 4,171,306 times
Reputation: 2075
Default GOP offers short-term debt-limit increase, but wants negotiations before ending shutdown

Boys and Girls,

I am sorry to inform you that the political theater for 2013 is almost come to an end. Rest assured, business as usual: Debt limit increased, big government intact, more wasteful spending, more regulations and don't forget, higher tax. For the next episode, please come check us back in September 2014.

Sincerely,
Your leaders and Honorable Mr/Mrs Congresses


House GOP pushes plan to raise debt ceiling; Jack Lew warns against default - The Washington Post

Quote:
GOP offers short-term debt-limit increase, but wants negotiations before ending shutdown

By Zachary A. Goldfarb, Paul Kane and Lori Montgomery, Updated: Thursday, October 10, 11:09 AM

BREAKING NEWS, 11:31: House Republican leaders say they will offer a bill authorizing a temporary increase in the debt ceiling, in exchange for discussions on reopening the government, funding the budget. The bill would avoid a looming, potentially disastrous federal government default. But it would not end the 10-day-old government shutdown, as the White House has demanded.

This story will update soon.

House Republican leaders are pushing a six-week increase in the debt limit, without any conservative strings attached, to calm jittery financial markets, according to senior GOP advisers.
The plan was presented to the House GOP caucus Thursday morning after Treasury Secretary Jack Lew warned a Senate panel that he would be unable to guarantee payments to any group — whether Social Security recipients or U.S. bondholders — unless Congress raises the federal debt ceiling.
If the GOP plan goes over well with rank-and-file Republicans, Speaker John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) could put the legislation on the floor for a vote late Thursday, aides said.
[See the latest updates on the shutdown.]
Financial markets soared on the first sign of optimistic news out of Washington in almost a month, with the Dow Jones industrial average up 169 points in the first 15 minutes of trading. The emerging plan would not deal with the now 10-day-old shutdown of the federal government, an issue that would move onto a separate track of talks.
The plan would meet President Obama’s demand for an increase in Treasury’s borrowing authority without any legislative riders, meaning that Democrats would likely support the plan and it could be signed into law. But it would set the stage for tough negotiations, possibly lasting until Thanksgiving, over bigger fiscal matters, since the tentative plan calls for only a six-week increase of the debt limit.
Advisers cautioned that Boehner’s often unruly caucus, which has repeatedly rejected leadership initiatives in the past, needs to sign off on the plan before it can advance.
Reacting to the GOP proposal, a White House official said: “It is better for economic certainty for Congress to take the threat of default off the table for as long as possible, which is why we support the Senate Democrats’ efforts to raise the debt limit for a year with no extraneous political strings attached.â€
Obama also wants House Republicans to allow a vote on the “clean†government funding bill that has been passed by the Senate, the official said. “Once Republicans in Congress act to remove the threat of default and end this harmful government shutdown, the president will be willing to negotiate on a broader budget agreement,†the official added. “While we are willing to look at any proposal Congress puts forward to end these manufactured crises, we will not allow a faction of the Republicans in the House to hold the economy hostage to its extraneous and extreme political demands. Congress needs to pass a clean debt limit increase and a funding bill to reopen the government.â€
Financial experts much prefer a longer-term extension of the debt ceiling, but even a brief extension would ease some of the turmoil that has been brewing on Wall Street. By the time markets closed Monday afternoon, the Dow had dropped 900 points in 14 trading days, losing almost 6 percent of its value.
Just three weeks ago, Boehner’s leadership team presented a plan to lift the debt ceiling accompanied by a one-year delay of Obama’s health-care law and a litany of other conservative domestic policy demands.
With Washington in gridlock and a key deadline in the debt-limit debate just one week away, Lew told the Senate Finance Committee Thursday morning that he would do all he can to minimize the pain of breaching the $16.7 trillion debt limit. But Lew also told the senators that in an unprecedented situation in which he would be relying entirely on the erratic flow of incoming revenue, the economy would suffer and there would not even be ertainty that the government could make all interest and principal payments.
“No credible economist or business leader thinks that defaulting is good for job creation or economic growth,†Lew said. “If Congress fails to meet its responsibility, it could be deeply damaging to the financial markets, the ongoing economic recovery, and the jobs and savings of millions of Americans.â€
Rep. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio), a key conservative with ties to leadership and more junior tea party-backed colleagues, said Thursday morning that he and his colleagues “potentially†could support the new GOP debt-ceiling plan.
“We think there needs to be some movement in dealing with the overall problem,†he said. “It’d be nice to get some dollar-to-dollar cuts there.â€
Asked whether he could support a short-term increase without related cuts, Jordan said he expected that question would be the primary topic of conversation among House Republicans on Thursday.
Amid growing anxiety about a debt default, Republicans in the House and the Senate floated ideas Wednesday for raising the debt limit — if only for a short time — in hopes of forcing Obama to the negotiating table.
One of the most significant ideas was brewing in the House, where Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) briefed conservatives on a plan to raise the debt limit for six weeks, which would give party leaders time to negotiate a broad agreement to overhaul the tax code and trim federal health-care and retirement spending.
The plan, which Ryan sketched in a Wall Street Journal opinion piece Wednesday, was short on details. And it called for spending cuts of roughly $200 billion to cover the cost of raising the debt limit even in the near term — although senior GOP advisers said late Wednesday that they were also considering an increase with no strings attached.
Lew’s appearance is the first public confrontation between a senior administration official and Republicans since the fiscal showdown began last month. The meeting comes as some lawmakers on Capitol Hill are questioning whether the administration has been too alarmist about the threat of going past an Oct. 17 deadline to raise the debt ceiling. Republicans have cited reports by credit-rating firms saying that the United States would not technically default unless it fails to make interest payments on its debt — which they regard as unlikely.
Echoing points made by Republican presidents and officials in prior administrations, Lew is tried to counter that argument by highlighting the broad risks of leaving the government with no borrowing authority.
“Certain members of the House and Senate believe that it is possible to protect our economy by simply paying only the interest on our debts, while stopping or delaying payments on a number of our other legal commitments,†Lew said. “The United States should not be put in a position of making such perilous choices for our economy and our citizens. There is no way of knowing the irrevocable damage such an approach would have on our economy and financial markets.â€
For example, officials say, Lew pointed out that the Treasury routinely refinances about $100 billion in debt every week, paying back principal and taking on new debt. He noted that should investors back away from Treasury debt, it could make refinancing difficult and throw the country’s financial markets into even greater chaos.
Lew said the administration will face a series of difficult decisions even if Treasury can avoid what the credit-rating firms consider a default. In a scenario where federal spending will far exceed revenue, he said, the administration would have only imperfect options in deciding whom to pay. Officials say Lew will try to push Republicans to decide whom they wouldn’t pay — Social Security recipients or veterans.
“We are relying on investors from all over the world to continue to hold U.S. bonds . . .,†Lew said. “If U.S. bondholders decided that they wanted to be repaid rather than continuing to roll-over their Treasury investments, we could unexpectedly dissipate our entire cash balance.â€
A Treasury official said Wednesday night that Obama would have to make the final decision in such a scenario.
Lew confronted a Senate Finance Committee stocked with Republicans who have been skeptical about the administration’s claims that breaching the debt limit would be catastrophic.
Among the committee’s members is Sen. Patrick J. Toomey (R-Pa.), who has championed the notion that the Treasury Department could avoid chaos in financial markets by continuing to make interest payments to investors.
The senior Republican on the panel, Sen. Orrin G. Hatch (Utah), has also expressed doubts about the risk of a debt-ceiling breach. But on Wednesday, Hatch acknowledged that blowing the Oct. 17 deadline would “scare the hell out of people.†And while Treasury might be able to pay interest on the debt, Hatch said, “the real question is whether it’s going to tank the stock market.â€
Obama, when he meets Thursday with House GOP leaders, is planning to emphasize his refusal to “pay ransom†to avoid default and reopen the government. Ryan, nonetheless, held out hope that “tomorrow’s meeting at the White House will allow us to work together and find common ground.â€
Thursday’s meeting is the second in a series the White House announced Wednesday aimed at breaking the impasse, reopening the government and raising the $16.7 trillion debt limit. Obama met first with House Democrats late Wednesday and plans to meet with each party in the Senate in the coming days, starting with a meeting with the Senate Democratic caucus Thursday.
Obama invited the entire 233-member GOP House conference to join him at the White House, but Republicans decided to send only an 18-member group comprising top leaders and key committee chairmen, including Ryan, Appropriations Chairman Harold Rogers (Ky.) and Ways and Means Chairman Dave Camp (Mich.).
“Nine days into a government shutdown and a week away from breaching the debt ceiling, a meeting is only worthwhile if it is focused on finding a solution,†Brendan Buck, a spokesman for Boehner, said in a statement. “That’s why the House Republican Conference will instead be represented by a smaller group of negotiators.â€
The White House said Obama is “disappointed†by Boehner’s decision to limit Republican attendance and emphasized that Obama will not be negotiating.
“The president thought it was important to talk directly with the members who forced this economic crisis on the country about how the shutdown and a failure to pay the country’s bills could devastate the economy,†White House press secretary Jay Carney said in a statement.
Obama “will talk to anyone anytime . . . but will not pay the Republicans ransom for doing their job,†Carney said. “If the Republicans want to have a real discussion, they should open the government and take the threat of default off the table.â€
Republicans on Capitol Hill, meanwhile, circulated a memo from one of the nation’s leading credit-rating agencies that seemed to play down the threat of default. In the memo, Moody’s Investors Service said the Treasury Department is likely to continue paying interest on the government’s debt even if Congress refuses to lift the limit on borrowing, preserving the nation’s sterling AAA credit rating.
“We believe the government would continue to pay interest and principal on its debt even in the event that the debt limit is not raised, leaving its creditworthiness intact,†said the Oct. 7 memo. “The debt limit restricts government expenditures to the amount of its incoming revenues; it does not prohibit the government from servicing its debt. There is no direct connection between the debt limit (actually the exhaustion of the Treasury’s extraordinary measures to raise funds) and a default.â€
The memo offered a starkly different view of the consequences of breaching the debt limit than is held by the White House, many policymakers and other financial analysts. Over the weekend, economists at Goldman Sachs said the economy would take a devastating hit even if Treasury kept making payments on the debt, because the pullback in federal spending would amount to roughly $175 billion, or 4.2 percentage points of gross domestic product.
Mohamed El-Erian, the chief executive of PIMCO, the world’s largest bond company, agreed that the administration could take steps to contain the worst damage. But, he said, there would still be severe consequences.
“It would avoid a series of major and cascading disruptions to the functioning of a financial market that is at the heart of the core of the global financial system,†he said. “Having said that, equities and other risk assets would still likely sell off hard.â€
Rep. Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.) noted that Moody’s analysis is geared toward the well-being of its own investors, not average Americans. “When they say their clients will be okay, they’re not talking about people on Society Security, Medicare or our troops in the field. Moody’s doesn’t give a damn about any of those people.â€
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:41 AM
 
11,768 posts, read 10,258,614 times
Reputation: 3444
Quote:
Originally Posted by cw30000 View Post
Boys and Girls,

I am sorry to inform you that the political theater for 2013 is almost come to an end. Rest assured, business as usual: Debt limit increased, big government intact, more wasteful spending, more regulations and don't forget, higher tax. For the next episode, please come check us back in September 2014.

Sincerely,
Your leaders and Honorable Mr/Mrs Congresses


House GOP pushes plan to raise debt ceiling; Jack Lew warns against default - The Washington Post
Good job Congress!
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:51 AM
 
17,441 posts, read 9,262,756 times
Reputation: 11906
Obama and the Democrats will reject this. They will agree to the Debt Ceiling extension, but only if they also get the "clean" CR that ends the shutdown. The entire point of the "clean" CR demand is what the Democrats want in the Budget - the want a Tax Hike and they want to end the sequester and increase spending.

At least ..... this is my guess.
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:56 AM
 
Location: E ND & NW MN
4,818 posts, read 10,999,266 times
Reputation: 3633
The sticking point will be the shutdown....I dont think enough Dems in the Senate nor Obama would support a hike in the debt limit if the shutdown continues. Now if the shutdown ends too...then I think they would take it.... Do hope the shutdown ends as in our office those on holiday leave will have to come to work on Monday (Columbus Day) and work even though not needed operationally and get double time instead of regular time as they would if they were on holiday leave. Makes no sense...
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:07 AM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
10,581 posts, read 9,780,337 times
Reputation: 4174
The routine Republican cave on the wild-spending-and-borrowing issue.

Want to start a pool, on how soon they will execute their equally-routine cave on deciding whether to fund Obamacare?

(sigh)
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