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Old 10-08-2013, 07:19 AM
 
Location: Calgary, AB
3,401 posts, read 2,285,496 times
Reputation: 1072

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Quote:
Originally Posted by southbel View Post
You see the problem here is that you believe the Koch brothers are some uber-evil entity.
But it's not our problem, it's yours. How you regard my opinion doesn't matter to me.

And we've gone a long way from "hated" to "uber-evil entity".
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:23 AM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,737,789 times
Reputation: 14745
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbel View Post
What policies with regards to 'trickle-down economics' have they changed? Lower taxes for corporations? Lower dividend taxes? What?
I didn't say they changed anything. you said that.

you wanted to know what trickle-down economics policies they supported. Yes, that includes lower corporate tax rates, lower investment tax rates, but primarily it is about conservative social spending cuts combined with extremely liberal banking policies.



Citizens for a Sound Economy
Americans for Prosperity
Cato Institute
The Charles Koch Foundation
Competitive Enterprise Institute
Generation Opportunity

^ all these are Koch-supported organizations that advocate for trickle-down economics.

they refer to it as "free market" economics, but i think that's inaccurate. I think they support a very particular form of free market economics that favors huge private institutions over individuals.

Quote:
Precisely which environmental regulations have they impacted?
here's a few.

The Koch brothers take on enviro groups over mine

Koch millions spread influence through nonprofits, colleges - The Koch Club | Investigative Reporting Workshop

Marcia G. Yerman: The Environment, the Election, Money and the Koch Brothers

Koch Paper Mill Profits from Weak Pollution Regulation

Koch's web of influence | Center for Public Integrity

Koch works behind scenes on renewable energy bill | CJOnline.com


Quote:
You see the problem here is that you believe the Koch brothers are some uber-evil entity. Yet, you cannot give me specific details as to why you believe so.
Who says I cannot?

You asked me for examples, and then tell me I cannot provide examples, in the same friggin' post.

What the hell is that about?


Quote:
So, is the true reason you do not like them because they are right-wing and rich?
i said don't like them because they're evil.

i said they differ from steve jobs and bill gates, in that they inherited their fortune.

Quote:
Thus, if someone were to say they hated Gates and/or Jobs because they are left-wing and rich, would you consider that hypocrisy or a valid opinion?
i'd consider "left wing and rich" to be a weak rationale for hating someone.
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:24 AM
 
Location: Montreal, Quebec
15,080 posts, read 14,327,358 times
Reputation: 9789
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbel View Post
Live in a house with wood studs? Ever use paper towels or toilet paper? Then you've helped the Koch brothers. Congrats!
Nope. I make a point of using only 100% recycled paper products, and Brawny isn't one of them. They use virgin wood pulp.
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Meggett, SC
11,011 posts, read 11,026,533 times
Reputation: 6192
Quote:
Originally Posted by weltschmerz View Post
Nope. I make a point of using only 100% recycled paper products, and Brawny isn't one of them. They use virgin wood pulp.
Well, then you live what you preach and I can actually respect that.
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:33 AM
 
752 posts, read 1,165,027 times
Reputation: 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperJohn View Post
They are "hip" rich, white guys. Or dead guy.

Never mind both Apple and ME use tactics to avoid billions in taxes, hire cheap labor, and bust unions.

The Buffet and Gates foundations are the models of tax planning and avoidance.

The Waltons use the same strategies. They, of course, are evil.
People how you can talk about Gates and Buffet in that way. Both already said will give all what they own to charity when dead. I, like all of you, would just give so much that can't be said that I didn't give nothing. What more you want from that 2 guys.
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:34 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,951,723 times
Reputation: 5661
I can't speak of Jobs but Gates advocates government policies that are contrary to his own personal interests, such as raising taxes on the rich, which benefits the public at large. That is civic virtue.

The Koch brothers fund organizations, like the Heritage Foundation, that make the case for coddling the rich, suppressing labor laws, reducing government regulations that help the public, etc. Basically, the Koch brothers are pure self-interest -- as their policy advocacy increases the incomes of the super-rich while holding down the wages of everyone else.

Yes, they also give money to hospitals and charities so they can have them named after themselves. That's for status, not because they're nice guys.
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:34 AM
 
Location: Meggett, SC
11,011 posts, read 11,026,533 times
Reputation: 6192
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
I didn't say they changed anything. you said that.

you wanted to know what trickle-down economics policies they supported. Yes, that includes lower corporate tax rates, lower investment tax rates, but primarily it is about conservative social spending cuts combined with extremely liberal banking policies.



Citizens for a Sound Economy
Americans for Prosperity
Cato Institute
The Charles Koch Foundation
Competitive Enterprise Institute
Generation Opportunity

^ all these are Koch-supported organizations that advocate for trickle-down economics.

they refer to it as "free market" economics, but i think it is a very particular form of free market economics that favors huge private institutions over individuals.



here's a few.

The Koch brothers take on enviro groups over mine

Koch millions spread influence through nonprofits, colleges - The Koch Club | Investigative Reporting Workshop

Marcia G. Yerman: The Environment, the Election, Money and the Koch Brothers

Koch Paper Mill Profits from Weak Pollution Regulation

Koch's web of influence | Center for Public Integrity

Koch works behind scenes on renewable energy bill | CJOnline.com




Who says I cannot?

You asked me for examples, and then tell me I cannot provide examples, in the same friggin' post.

What the hell is that about?




i said don't like them because they're evil.

i said they differ from steve jobs and bill gates, in that they inherited their fortune.



i'd consider "left wing and rich" to be a weak rationale for hating someone.
That was a lot said. My point in that was to see if you had rationale for disliking their stance. I have found, multiple times, that a lot of people have issues with person X or Y, not because of specifics, but rather because of some meme that's been bandied about their circle.

Here's the thing. They support a point of view that is opposite of your own. That is not inherently evil. That is simply someone that does not support your point of view. They, like many people of vast wealth, use that wealth to better position themselves in our political process. This is something that is seen on both the left and the right.

Personally, I would like to see the influence of both left and right wing billionaires on our political process diminished and/or eliminated. No billionaire, whether that person is left or right, represents the vast majority of Americans. They represent themselves and their own personal interests - first and foremost.

I advocate a position often held in disdain by both the left and right of eliminating all lobbyists. However, my position will likely never be implemented - there's too much money involved.
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Meggett, SC
11,011 posts, read 11,026,533 times
Reputation: 6192
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
I can't speak of Jobs but Gates advocates government policies that are contrary to his own personal interests, such as raising taxes on the rich, which benefits the public at large. That is civic virtue.

The Koch brothers fund organizations, like the Heritage Foundation, that make the case for coddling the rich, suppressing labor laws, reducing government regulations that help the public, etc. Basically, the Koch brothers are pure self-interest -- as their policy advocacy increases the incomes of the super-rich while holding down the wages of everyone else.

Yes, they also give money to hospitals and charities so they can have them named after themselves. That's for status, not because they're nice guys.
They advocate raising taxes on income taxes of the rich. If, like Buffett, they've given themselves an income that is very small, these policies are still beneficial to themselves. I cannot speak to exactly which type of tax policy Gates has advocated other than the generic 'let's let the rich pay more'.
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:37 AM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,737,789 times
Reputation: 14745
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbel View Post
Here's the thing. They support a point of view that is opposite of your own. That is not inherently evil.
I never said that opposing views were inherently evil; I said the Koch's views were evil.

I'm going to be blunt : I think you have severe reading comprehension problems.
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:53 AM
 
78,432 posts, read 60,613,724 times
Reputation: 49733
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
I never said that opposing views were inherently evil; I said the Koch's views were evil.

I'm going to be blunt : I think you have severe reading comprehension problems.
So, you think gay rights, cancer research, decriminalizing marijuana and teaching evolution are evil views?

What are you, some social arch-conservative?
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