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While the terrorists of 9/11 killed about 3,000 people in 2001, there has been another insidious killer that has taken the lives of about 2,500 people each year for decades.
I am of course talking about left-handed people using devices originally designed for right-handed people!
Cute post-and I'm sure it's true. People are also killed each year by falling objects, enraged spouses, hunting accidents, and excesssive smoking. But none of this is going to let the "Islamofascists" off the hook.
Similar comparisons are frequently made over on the Immigration forum, where it's often pointed out that "Crime by illegal aliens isn't really a serious problem, since we already have plenty of 'bad' Americans who ALSO commit crimes"
Sorry, but these comparisons just won't fly....A 'bad thing' isn't minimized by pointing out that ther are OTHER 'bad things' going on. One doesn't excuse the other.
Cute post-and I'm sure it's true. People are also killed each year by falling objects, enraged spouses, hunting accidents, and excesssive smoking. But none of this is going to let the "Islamofascists" off the hook.
Similar comparisons are frequently made over on the Immigration forum, where it's often pointed out that "Crime by illegal aliens isn't really a serious problem, since we already have plenty of 'bad' Americans who ALSO commit crimes"
Sorry, but these comparisons just won't fly....A 'bad thing' isn't minimized by pointing out that ther are OTHER 'bad things' going on. One doesn't excuse the other.
And I am left handed!
Maybe not let the "Islamofascists" off the hook, (and by the way I thought the Saudi Arabian prince has already nixed that word for official use ) but I believe Evlevo is saying perhaps we tend to exaggerate one particular danger to the point that our reaction causes much more harm than the original danger did, due to the "sexy" nature of the threat.
And if we had used the $Trillion$ to make our highways safer, improve health care in America, etc, etc, concentrating on making our ports safe and targetting specific terrorist cells around the world where identified, that might have been money better spent, with more Americans alive and healthy today?
As far as the illegals and crime go, sure no crime is good crime. However there is a similar tendency to magnify this one segment of crime... due to the easy targets illegals provide. So if there are fifty robberies and one is by an illegal, that is the one you will read about in the headlines. These statistics then get skewed to ridiculous proportions by white supremacist rags and this increases nativism and racism in our society. It is better and more productive to direct all that misplaced rage at the employers that are continuing to hire them...yes, the Mexican government is to blame also, but I have a feeling there is more we can do to minimize the "pull" effect on this end then to minimize the "push" effect on the other end.
Somewhat oddly, there's logic applied over on the Immigration subforum which assumes that illegal immigrants are in fact entirely capable of becoming the first known subset of modern Americans to commit no crimes at all and be involved in no fatal traffic accidents. And the fact that, as a group, they have not accomplished this is taken as yet more reason why all of them should be rounded up and deported.
Somewhat oddly, there's logic applied over on the Immigration subforum which assumes that illegal immigrants are in fact entirely capable of becoming the first known subset of modern Americans to commit no crimes at all and be involved in no fatal traffic accidents. And the fact that, as a group, they have not accomplished this is taken as yet more reason why all of them should be rounded up and deported.
It's a strange place, the Immigration subforum...
The Illegal Immigration forum is admittedly a "scary" place. For the sake of PURE argument and debate, though, putting aside any "qualifiers", I still say, and will continue to say, that "domestic" crime is a "given"--it is built into the equation of our society, and we must deal with it, period. Illegal-immigrant crime is an "elective"--it happens only because illegals are here. They're here because we voluntarily, by our actions, or failure to act, allow them here. If we DIDN't allow them here, such crimes as they do commit wouldn't be occurring here.
It's like the mischief and disobedience of YOUR KIDS, as opposed to the mischief and disobedience of your NEIGHBOR'S Kids....the one you MUST deal with--the other you shouldn't have to,
Finally, Saganista, I'll quibble with one point of yours--innocent, perhaps, but very telling--and that's your description of illegals as a "subset of modern Americans". By definition, they AREN'T Americans---that's the whole 'crux' of the issue. Fair or not, love them, hate them, or hold no opinion either way, illegals are NOT citizens, and that's why they have their own subforum. And it's my position that any crimes they commit while here are not our responsibility, any more than your neighbor's kid's misbehaving in your house is YOUR responsibility. When your kid breaks your window, you fix it at your expense. When the neighbor's kid comes over uninvited, and breaks your window, you bill his parents.
I'll finish as I ALWAYS do, by saying that none of this presupposes any "evil" in illegal immigrants (other than undocumented border-crossing). Most are very hard-working people, and for the sake of this discussion, it's entirely possible they are LESS prone to violent crime than many Americans. This has nothing to do with the fact that even if illegals commit only ONE murder, it's an "extra" murder, as far as US society is concerned......It's not an inevitable part of our American population misbehaving, but the result of an "uninvited guest" misbehaving.
Maybe not let the "Islamofascists" off the hook, (and by the way I thought the Saudi Arabian prince has already nixed that word for official use ) but I believe Evlevo is saying perhaps we tend to exaggerate one particular danger to the point that our reaction causes much more harm than the original danger did, due to the "sexy" nature of the threat.
And if we had used the $Trillion$ to make our highways safer, improve health care in America, etc, etc, concentrating on making our ports safe and targetting specific terrorist cells around the world where identified, that might have been money better spent, with more Americans alive and healthy today?
As far as the illegals and crime go, sure no crime is good crime. However there is a similar tendency to magnify this one segment of crime... due to the easy targets illegals provide. So if there are fifty robberies and one is by an illegal, that is the one you will read about in the headlines. These statistics then get skewed to ridiculous proportions by white supremacist rags and this increases nativism and racism in our society. It is better and more productive to direct all that misplaced rage at the employers that are continuing to hire them...yes, the Mexican government is to blame also, but I have a feeling there is more we can do to minimize the "pull" effect on this end then to minimize the "push" effect on the other end.
Much wisdom in your post, though you risk discounting the human factor. The fact that "people die in huge numbers each year in car accidents" doesn't discount the very few victims of terrorism. In the sense of pure numbers, you are quite correct. But in human terms. we'll always feel different about a loved one killed in a car wreck, as oppsed to a loved one raped and murdered by someone's evil "design". And that, I think, gives the terrorism issue its huge interest.
I'm the first to admit our "war on terror" hasn't been run very intelligently or efficiently. But there's a huge psychological difference between the feelings engendered by the "war on terror" as opposed to the "war on unsafe driving", regardless of how many lives each 'problem' actually takes...
Somewhat oddly, there's logic applied over on the Immigration subforum which assumes that illegal immigrants are in fact entirely capable of becoming the first known subset of modern Americans to commit no crimes at all and be involved in no fatal traffic accidents. And the fact that, as a group, they have not accomplished this is taken as yet more reason why all of them should be rounded up and deported.
It's a strange place, the Immigration subforum...
The reasons that illegals are here is not important: they are trespassing in my country and most of us want 'em gone.
Now; we can always adopt Mexico's laws pertaining to illegals in their land......word has it they ain't nice------especially to Guatemalans, etc.
The reasons that illegals are here is not important: they are trespassing in my country and most of us want 'em gone.
Now; we can always adopt Mexico's laws pertaining to illegals in their land......word has it they ain't nice------especially to Guatemalans, etc.
To some extent, the issue of crime among illegals acts as a "sweetener", making the position of being anti-illegal easier to defend.
I once had a professional environmental activist admit to me that very few people of ANY political persuasion actually CARE "two hoots" about the spotted owl (in the Pacific N.W.)--or the Kangaroo rat (in my area)...these are just "sweeteners" in the argument. That way, one doesn't have to say, "I don't want logging companies cutting down trees (even though lots of peoples' jobs depend on it)---But I just want to SAVE THE SPOTTED OWL"
Similarly, in Southern California, one doesn't have to say' "I don't want to see huge new subdivisions built (even though it means homes for thousands of people)--I'm only trying to SAVE THE HABITAT of the KANGAROO RAT".
In the case of illegals, one is able to say "I don't mind Mexicans moving in here illegally---I'm certainly no racist---I'm only objecting to them because I want to cut down on the CRIME they bring with them". It's a neat 'sweetener' for anyone who really DOES object to the immigrants for racist reasons. Unfortunately, though, as I've mentioned above, there are also quite LEGITIMATE reasons for objecting to crime committed by illegals--and you don't HAVE to be a racist to point this out.
The reasons that illegals are here is not important: they are trespassing in my country and most of us want 'em gone.
they are trespassing in your country that became yours because you trespassed in their country.
bone up on your history. arizona was mexican land, until the united states violently overthrew the mexican army, and threw them a bit of money for the violently acquired lands, to make it seem somewhat legit (despite the fact the treaty was made under the threat of annexation).
its your land now. it was their land. and it might be, all over again. fair is fair if you want to claim the land as your own.
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) but I believe Evlevo is saying perhaps we tend to exaggerate one particular danger to the point that our reaction causes much more harm than the original danger did, due to the "sexy" nature of the threat. 
The "Sweetener"
