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Old 10-09-2013, 09:20 AM
 
41,616 posts, read 22,812,266 times
Reputation: 20590

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I don't understand how you want to put your health care in the hands of these people in government... especially those of you who want the government to be a single "provider" of payment.

I am witnessing this government shutdown, where they are holding innocent people and their money hostage while they fight out their political agendas. The Congressmen are getting paid. Millions of people are NOT getting paid.

Are you now willing to be a bargaining chip at the political table, where a Congressman can say - do what I want, or we shutdown the government and there will be no payouts for health care purposes? Someone please explain to me how this is better than freely providing for your own care.

Also - can we petition a bill where any time the government shuts down, Congressmen either don't get paid, or they a fraction of their salary?
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:31 AM
 
31,367 posts, read 35,440,912 times
Reputation: 15003
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
I don't understand how you want to put your health care in the hands of these people in government... especially those of you who want the government to be a single "provider" of payment.
I am witnessing this government shutdown, where they are holding innocent people and their money hostage while they fight out their political agendas. The Congressmen are getting paid. Millions of people are NOT getting paid.

Are you now willing to be a bargaining chip at the political table, where a Congressman can say - do what I want, or we shutdown the government and there will be no payouts for health care purposes? Someone please explain to me how this is better than freely providing for your own care.

Also - can we petition a bill where any time the government shuts down, Congressmen either don't get paid, or they a fraction of their salary?[/quote]

Your question is so discombobulated, ill formed and ill-informed that it is supremely difficult to form an intelligent response but I will try.

Under a single payer system the government acts as the insurer, the government negotiates the cost of medical services, the citizens pay their premium to the government which in turn reimburses the medical providers. The only possible thing that crazies in Congress could do would be to default on paying for services already rendered, in short default.
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Annandale, VA
5,094 posts, read 4,921,923 times
Reputation: 4221
I totally agree. The party in power will use the power to deny people healthcare as a weapon to get what they want.

I also think that ALL national parks should be surrendered to the STATES to manage. That way if the FED does shut down for any reason, the states can prioritize the ones that can remain open based on tourist dollars generated. The FED will block grant money for them, but the states can use STATE money to continue operations until the FED shutdown is resolved.
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Old 10-09-2013, 10:01 AM
 
Location: South Portland, ME
894 posts, read 1,148,992 times
Reputation: 901
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Under a single payer system the government acts as the insurer, the government negotiates the cost of medical services, the citizens pay their premium to the government which in turn reimburses the medical providers. The only possible thing that crazies in Congress could do would be to default on paying for services already rendered, in short default.
But what will ensure that premium prices are reasonable and affordable under such a system, without competition to drive the costs down?

Whenever the government is involved in "negotiating costs", prices seem to rise. Even for simple things like buying a $3 hammer - the government ends up paying $100...

http://www.scragged.com/articles/yes...government-100

Quote:
When criticizing government plans to take over health care on the spurious basis that government control will make it more efficient, Scragged has often referred to the government paying $100 for a $2.98 hammer or $600 for an ordinary toilet seat. It occurred to us that some of our readers wouldn't have read about these matters.

We thought it might be worthwhile to explain how $100 hammers came about and what happened to them.

....

They found more than 20 cost categories associated with the hammer - marketing, travel, training, cleaning, general administration, facilities, and other overhead items that were allocated to the hammer by formulas defined in the contract.

The smallest line item I remember was about $.23, the biggest was $4.50 or so, but these items added up to precisely the price the government had been charged. Since military contract boilerplate said that the accounting principles called for in the contract were matters of law, it would have been against the law to charge a penny less.

Last edited by JoulesMSU; 10-09-2013 at 10:09 AM..
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Old 10-09-2013, 10:02 AM
 
41,616 posts, read 22,812,266 times
Reputation: 20590
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Your question is so discombobulated, ill formed and ill-informed that it is supremely difficult to form an intelligent response but I will try.

Under a single payer system the government acts as the insurer, the government negotiates the cost of medical services, the citizens pay their premium to the government which in turn reimburses the medical providers. The only possible thing that crazies in Congress could do would be to default on paying for services already rendered, in short default.
The military is rendering services and are not getting paid past the 7th from what I've heard.

The government will receive tax money, but will not pay out any refunds while it is shutdown.

So let's not pretend they would just pay out simply because services have been rendered.
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Old 10-09-2013, 10:32 AM
 
2,672 posts, read 2,588,850 times
Reputation: 1036
Havent Republicans been demanding to "shut it down" for the past two years until the ACA was repealed and now defunded. So the Republicans decided to "shut it down" until they get their way even though in the last election it was clear they lost. Lets keep it "shut down" until the Republicans can figure a way out of this dead end street they decided to drive down.
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Old 10-09-2013, 10:41 AM
 
41,616 posts, read 22,812,266 times
Reputation: 20590
Quote:
Originally Posted by borregokid View Post
Havent Republicans been demanding to "shut it down" for the past two years until the ACA was repealed and now defunded. So the Republicans decided to "shut it down" until they get their way even though in the last election it was clear they lost. Lets keep it "shut down" until the Republicans can figure a way out of this dead end street they decided to drive down.
There are plenty of other threads for you to spout the party nonsense.

Do you mind addressing the question I posed?
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Old 10-09-2013, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Fort Payne Alabama
2,163 posts, read 2,349,359 times
Reputation: 4128
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
I don't understand how you want to put your health care in the hands of these people in government... especially those of you who want the government to be a single "provider" of payment.
Generally speaking Medicare does a pretty good job, I am all for a single service health care provider which gives them untold leverage on keeping costs under control (if congress would keep their fingers out of it pandering to their special interests like big pharma). If a person wants more services or choices they can purchase a policy from a private insurance company to give them what they desire.
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Old 10-09-2013, 11:24 AM
 
41,616 posts, read 22,812,266 times
Reputation: 20590
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreggT View Post
Generally speaking Medicare does a pretty good job, I am all for a single service health care provider which gives them untold leverage on keeping costs under control (if congress would keep their fingers out of it pandering to their special interests like big pharma). If a person wants more services or choices they can purchase a policy from a private insurance company to give them what they desire.
You kinda said two things here - which I put in red and green. If you have a choice to purchase private insurance - then we are no longer speaking about government as a single service health provider.

Is that correct - or am I missing something?

Also - I have heard from the provider side, that the government has issues when it comes to paying the doctors and/or hospitals. Often payments are late or not in full.
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Old 10-09-2013, 11:32 AM
 
47,527 posts, read 66,675,507 times
Reputation: 22408
If liberals really believed in obamacare, they would already have signed up and wouldn't be griping about paying what they should pay. As usual though, they don't want to have to pay a dime, they expect the taxpayers to pay it all, just like their obamaphones.
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